Which class fantasies of base classes do you like/miss?

[Cleretic]

Pretty sure Paladins in the previous 4+ editions got their powers from the divine.

5E having oaths be the source of their power also feels like a bit of a slapped on afterthought to me, given that a lot of their toolkit still has divine right there in the name.

It's kinda both?

Like I said earlier in the thread, pre-2e Paladins were still religious, but they weren't religious as their primary thing. They were a Charlemagne/Knights of the Round Table thing, where you were a chivalrous knight of the realm and being religious (specifically Christian let's be honest) was just an expected part of that. My guess is that D&D evolved Paladins into that more predominantly religious context so that the class could have an identity meaningfully different from just a Lawful Good fighter.

The entire evolution of D&D Paladins afterwards is a separate discussion, but in the context of FFXIV the main thing is that Final Fantasy's image of a Paladin grew out of that pre-2e Paladin and sort of evolved in parallel, basically just winding up as 'a knight with some divine-looking magic' (but not actual Holy, that's still the white mage's territory... who, uhm, also isn't typically depicted as religious, but at least is sometimes).

[DreadCrow]

Pretty sure Paladins in the previous 4+ editions got their powers from the divine.

5E having oaths be the source of their power also feels like a bit of a slapped on afterthought to me, given that a lot of their toolkit still has divine right there in the name.

3rd and 4th edition were actually the only editions where paladins were explicitly religious warriors empowered by gods. 1e and 2e paladins were often religion, but empowered by devotion to Law and Good as concepts. In the Complete Paladin's Handbook (2e) many of the kits (i.e.: subclasses) were non-religious. Basically, powered by chivalry.

[kaynide]

Re: D&D

Just to add, pre 3E, Paladins essentially had more to do with real world Samurai code than anything holy. (see: Bushido) . Moreover, in certain settings many didn't even refer to themselves as actual Paladins so much as follow some kind of strict code, nor did they even have holy magic.

Specific examples include the Solamnic Knights of Dragonlance ("My Honor is my Life", to the point that sullying it could merit suicide). Again never really called themselves paladins, and in that universe they basically didn't have magic (Divine magic in that world essentially didn't exist outside of specific characters in the original series)

[AnimaAnimus]

I really miss the feral mage fantasy that we were givin in the form of blue mage in FFXI and just despise how they destroyed it here in XIV.

In XI, blue mage was a mysterious, fierce and formitable warrior who roamed the wilds and sought out foes to battle with so you could absorb them into yourself and gain the ability to mimic their attacks. The lore was deep and dramatic, with the ever present danger of losing ones mind to the beast within lurking around the bend. It felt good to go into the wilds of Vana'diel either solo or in a pack and seek out monsters to then slowly dps them down until they used their attacks befoire you unleashed your fury upon them. It felt like you were hunting and studying these creatures. When you were doing content you could them use these skills in combinations or by themselves to rain pain down on your enemy and claim your reward. It was a true beastial sort of class that felt like it had power always brimming underneith.

In XIV they are a circus side show. *play the Price is Right lose melody here*

A feral mage or some sort of wild druidic style class is really sorely needed in this game.

[Cleretic]

I really miss the feral mage fantasy that we were givin in the form of blue mage in FFXI

I don't like the language or angle used in the rest of this post, but broadly I do think this is actually a surprising thing missing for this game, because I also wanted to swing for a 'wild mage' angle for my character initially. It's partially why her name is monosyllabic; I wanted a Gau vibe. I didn't think Blue Mage was going to be 'it', because XIV clearly links up with me in its core image of Blue Mage being from V, but I am surprised we don't have it at all.

These days, you aren't out of luck on this aesthetically; the Ravel Keeper and Warg sets at least provide a basic angle for a 'wilderness-living mage'. But it's insane that it took until Shadowbringers for us to get anything for that vibe, and still no job trying to use that angle themselves. It's a rich vein, you could get some serious style out of a wild mage aesthetic!

[Vyrerus]

In XIV they are a circus side show. *play the Price is Right lose melody here*

A feral mage or some sort of wild druidic style class is really sorely needed in this game.

I definitely think that FFXI has the best interpretation of Blue Mage of all time. Its lore of it being a scientific and chimerical alchemical alteration of a person's body and soul dating back to the previous Empire firmly planted it in monster territory.

The litmus test to see if you have the right mindset to be one with Raubahn's questions while in disguise as the soothsayer Waoud also really spoke to its fierce nature.

Then the genkai 70 for it, if you hadn't fought Maat yet OR if you just felt like doing it. Where Raubahn takes you deep into Mamool Ja territory, intent on consuming you for power, but using the Mamool Ja did it as a cover story... All because he found you to be irresistible due to how powerful you'd grown...

Blue Mage in XI really was steeped and soaked in lore and identity.

XIV BLU is definitely a step down, however, I think you've missed the forest for the trees. It is an animalistic mage brought over from The New World. Yet, its value isn't readily apparent, and it's such a new and foreign concept in Eorzea that Martin dresses it up and presents it in a showy way to draw attention to it.

A lot of its magic is disgusting, stilted, or otherworldy. But it wears a fine suit. While wielding a rain stick, a tribal instrument believed to bring about rainstorms.

But, of course, none of BLU's power comes from its weapon. Unlike other jobs, its weapon is just a prop. Like all beasts, BLU's power comes from the BLU itself.

It's a beast held in captivity in XIV, and this doubles as meta commentary on its nature as a, "limited job" where if it were unlimited with the same design that it has now, it would replace and supplant every single other job in XIV, as BLU threatened to do several times over the course of XI's later years.

If you actually go do sync'd Savage raids on BLU, you will see just how powerful it can be. It is such a powerful job that even though being considered a DPS class by the game's code alters and makes mechanical checks more difficult, BLU can generally circumvent them with choice spell use, insane DPS, or its insane healing/mitigation options that are always available to it with its only limitation being MP.

[KooriGraywolf]

I really miss the feral mage fantasy that we were givin in the form of blue mage in FFXI and just despise how they destroyed it here in XIV.

In XI, blue mage was a mysterious, fierce and formitable warrior who roamed the wilds and sought out foes to battle with so you could absorb them into yourself and gain the ability to mimic their attacks. The lore was deep and dramatic, with the ever present danger of losing ones mind to the beast within lurking around the bend. It felt good to go into the wilds of Vana'diel either solo or in a pack and seek out monsters to then slowly dps them down until they used their attacks befoire you unleashed your fury upon them. It felt like you were hunting and studying these creatures. When you were doing content you could them use these skills in combinations or by themselves to rain pain down on your enemy and claim your reward. It was a true beastial sort of class that felt like it had power always brimming underneith.

In XIV they are a circus side show. *play the Price is Right lose melody here*

A feral mage or some sort of wild druidic style class is really sorely needed in this game.

I don't know much about the FF11 Blue Mage, but actually, I really like the FF14 Blue Mage. Not so much the Masked Carnivale part of it, but the part about them originating from the Whalaqee (essentialy Native Americans) who learned to mimic the animals around them, and who where named "Blue Mage" by explorers due to the blue mountains where they lived. I thought it was an interesting new take on Blue Mage.

[AnimaAnimus]

I don't know much about the FF11 Blue Mage

If you want to know more about the lore of blu from XI, you can find it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-cbZRP8NA

[Turnintino]

A feral mage or some sort of wild druidic style class is really sorely needed in this game.

Agreed, although I'm not necessarily mad that the concept wasn't "wasted" on a limited job.

That said, I guess Beast Master could potentially be our best bet in the immediate future, and that's going to be limited too lol. Unlikely to be a mage, but I can imagine it filling a similar niche to the Blue Mage of FFXI, thematically, at least.

I won't speculate too much, though; that's grounds for disappointment.

[AnimaAnimus]

That said, I guess Beast Master could potentially be our best bet in the immediate future,.

As much as I would love a more gritty, feral beastmaster, going by their track record I will put money on bst just being an UwU hunter/trapper with a pokemon twist