Discuss : is ffxiv in trouble

[Striker44]

One thing unique to EW is it’s uniquely awful retention rate, all expansions see a drop off in their later patches, especially the lull between x.5 and x+1.0 but usually that dip is in the realm of 10-20%, according to the recent census data even though the WOW exodus affected the 6.0 launch 14 has lost close to 70% of its 6.0 playerbase numbers

That is not a healthy drop no matter how high they were coming down off

I'm confused. You're acknowledging that the WoW exodus anomaly grossly affected the data, then...immediately proceed to use that data? The % you cite is "unique" to EW precisely because the "WoW exodus" is unique to EW. It occurred at the tail end of ShB, but its impact first showed up in the 6.0 numbers. Most of those players were never going to stay. They weren't coming to FFXIV because they had taken the time to learn about it. They came here because they were "fleeing" WoW and FFXIV was another very popular MMO, so it became a "natural" destination of sorts. But FFXIV's popularity comes precisely from focusing on a different audience, a different type of gamer. While there will always be some overlap among different games within a genre, people who had never even touched FFXIV before and only played WoW were highly unlikely to be the target audience.

What you really need to do is remove that anomaly and either use pre-exodus numbers as the starting point, or use post-6.1 numbers once the population spike had already resolved itself. Do either of those and you'll see EW's retention rate is nothing other than the natural rate it (and every MMO) experiences. There's nothing special about EW's retention, and certainly nothing to scream the sky is falling over.

[Supersnow845]

I'm confused. You're acknowledging that the WoW exodus anomaly grossly affected the data, then...immediately proceed to use that data? The % you cite is "unique" to EW precisely because the "WoW exodus" is unique to EW. It occurred at the tail end of ShB, but its impact first showed up in the 6.0 numbers. Most of those players were never going to stay. They weren't coming to FFXIV because they had taken the time to learn about it. They came here because they were "fleeing" WoW and FFXIV was another very popular MMO, so it became a "natural" destination of sorts. But FFXIV's popularity comes precisely from focusing on a different audience, a different type of gamer. While there will always be some overlap among different games within a genre, people who had never even touched FFXIV before and only played WoW were highly unlikely to be the target audience.

What you really need to do is remove that anomaly and either use pre-exodus numbers as the starting point, or use post-6.1 numbers once the population spike had already resolved itself. Do either of those and you'll see EW's retention rate is nothing other than the natural rate it (and every MMO) experiences. There's nothing special about EW's retention, and certainly nothing to scream the sky is falling over.

1) if I use 6.1 data then between 6.1 and 6.5 the game has lost 45% of its playerbase, still not remotely a good number

2) I still have no idea why people just automatically assume the WOW players were a lost cause, 14 did absolutely nothing to even try to retain them (sure sure different game different crowd……) but if your competitor dumps 1 million players into your lap you try to hold onto them, not just do the same thing you’ve always done then go “nothing we could have done so sad”

[strawberrycake]

1) if I use 6.1 data then between 6.1 and 6.5 the game has lost 45% of its playerbase, still not remotely a good number

2) I still have no idea why people just automatically assume the WOW players were a lost cause, 14 did absolutely nothing to even try to retain them (sure sure different game different crowd……) but if your competitor dumps 1 million players into your lap you try to hold onto them, not just do the same thing you’ve always done then go “nothing we could have done so sad”

Yep, only the people who couldn;t keep up with the content or people who madethemselves hate wow stayed in XIV, and they were looking for a reason to finally leave, most WoW players went back to WoW.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

1) if I use 6.1 data then between 6.1 and 6.5 the game has lost 45% of its playerbase, still not remotely a good number

2) I still have no idea why people just automatically assume the WOW players were a lost cause, 14 did absolutely nothing to even try to retain them (sure sure different game different crowd……) but if your competitor dumps 1 million players into your lap you try to hold onto them, not just do the same thing you’ve always done then go “nothing we could have done so sad”

Because a lot of those players got caught up in the moment of "blizzard devs bad, boycott", and that just didn't last. They weren't looking for new games, they were looking for wow but not blizzard.





Turning XIV into wow to keep the wow players would have likely alienated people who play XIV because they enjoy it and don't want to play wow.

[Supersnow845]

Because a lot of those players got caught up in the moment of "blizzard devs bad, boycott", and that just didn't last. They weren't looking for new games, they were looking for wow but not blizzard.





Turning XIV into wow to keep the wow players would have likely alienated people who play XIV because they enjoy it and don't want to play wow.

And nobody was asking for anyone to turn 14 into WOW, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have tried to retain those players rather than declare them a lost cause before they even joined

If they joined, 14 tried to retain them and still failed then

1) the rest of us would have more content

2) at least they could say they tried so to speak

They really don’t have a leg to stand on when they didnt even try

[Kes13a]

And nobody was asking for anyone to turn 14 into WOW, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have tried to retain those players rather than declare them a lost cause before they even joined

If they joined, 14 tried to retain them and still failed then

1) the rest of us would have more content

2) at least they could say they tried so to speak

They really don’t have a leg to stand on when they didnt even try

this is just false.

Endwalker was already basically in the can and you would have wanted them to rewrite and re develop everything on the off chance that the WoW immigrants were ACTUALLY interested and might stick around? pushing back release already ticked the regular people off, and you would have wanted them to push it back further, to try and impress people who had bagged on the game for years already because it wasnt WoW?

not sure what universe you live in, but in this one, successful companies dont trashbin an expansion based on a surprise influx, what ifs and wishful thinking. there are not any reasonable ways to retain those players that would not have annoyed long term players or caused an exodus here.

[Supersnow845]

this is just false.

Endwalker was already basically in the can and you would have wanted them to rewrite and re develop everything on the off chance that the WoW immigrants were ACTUALLY interested and might stick around? pushing back release already ticked the regular people off, and you would have wanted them to push it back further, to try and impress people who had bagged on the game for years already because it wasnt WoW?

not sure what universe you live in, but in this one, successful companies dont trashbin an expansion based on a surprise influx, what ifs and wishful thinking. there are not any reasonable ways to retain those players that would not have annoyed long term players or caused an exodus here.

Why do y’all think so black and white

All I said is they could have tried to add some things rather than the same tired cadence of content that has been unbelievably slow since ShB and you immediately assume I’m saying “rewrite the entire expansion and make it so normal 14 players hate it”

Was an extra extreme trial and maybe a second deep dungeon as emergency additions to 6.1 too much to ask for

Sure 14 plans far in advance but if a competitor dumps an extra 40% of your current playerbase into your lap and you don’t try to do “something” because you have a design schedule then something has gone terribly wrong

[strawberrycake]

Why do y’all think so black and white

All I said is they could have tried to add some things rather than the same tired cadence of content that has been unbelievably slow since ShB and you immediately assume I’m saying “rewrite the entire expansion and make it so normal 14 players hate it”

Was an extra extreme trial and maybe a second deep dungeon as emergency additions to 6.1 too much to ask for

Sure 14 plans far in advance but if a competitor dumps an extra 40% of your current playerbase into your lap and you don’t try to do “something” because you have a design schedule then something has gone terribly wrong

You come to realize most of the people in XIV and the extended FF fandom lack the ability to see nuance and lack critical thinking as a whole. To see the grey/gray reality of things would require them to see the natural flaws of XIV and understand why other MMO are equally as successful as XIV and to then come to the conclusion that Yoshida didn't want XIV to be The top MMO, and that he was fine with second or third place.

Also they have very little to no comprehension about how games work, or they like to play dumb. If Yoshida and Se were smart they would have catered to having more midcore replayable content that scales up for players, Yoshida was also say this in tandem with the whole you don't have to play all the time nonsense, which is, not all content is for you, something a lot of XIV players need to hear as well.

And for the slow and low amount of content, yeah I don't know why this is the only game on the market with such aggressive fomo and such a short turnover for current content.

All and All, history like with so man other MMOs, repeats itself, and no ones gonna notice all the things that are truly going wrong until the game is literally on fire and imploding, and then they'll all be scuttling to try and fix it.

And for all of you who still sadly lack reading comprehension, the former statement is not me implying that the game is gonna go boom in the near future.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

And nobody was asking for anyone to turn 14 into WOW, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have tried to retain those players rather than declare them a lost cause before they even joined

If they joined, 14 tried to retain them and still failed then

1) the rest of us would have more content

2) at least they could say they tried so to speak

They really don’t have a leg to stand on when they didnt even try

What could they have done differently?


Development cycles are planned years in advance. What changes could they have made that would have kept wow players? What did the devs need to rush to do immediately to keep them here before the anger at blizzard wore off?

I don't think most wow players who left because of the exodus stayed any meaningful amount of time. They moved back after the shadowbringers launch. At that point, the ship had sailed.

[GoatOfWar]

Because a lot of those players got caught up in the moment of "blizzard devs bad, boycott", and that just didn't last. They weren't looking for new games, they were looking for wow but not blizzard.





Turning XIV into wow to keep the wow players would have likely alienated people who play XIV because they enjoy it and don't want to play wow.

Who is realistically asking FF to turn into WoW though? All people wanted was a more enjoyable endgame. Nobody is asking for Torghast, visions or AP grinds.
There's things WoW does better and there's things FF does better. This whole WOW BAD hive mentality any time someone mentions something WoW does better that FF could borrow from, is just beyond weird.

Catering to turbo casuals and hardcore players alone just leaves everyone in the middle out.