Discuss : is ffxiv in trouble

[Swordsman]

What do you predict will happen to 14 in 3 or 5 years. Do you think it can change? Or will. Do you think the games health is impacting the mogstation too?

What could the devs do to improve the game? Or are people blowing things out the water? I'd love to hear your thoughts

In 3 to 5 years I think the game will still be fine. Yes, the game needs improvements and there will probably be less players, but I don't think FFXIV will completely die until much much later (maybe 10+ years from now?). I'm sure SE will continue to release small bits of content here and there to keep the game alive, at least for the next few years.

[Erinellza]

FFXIV is not in trouble, updates confirmed for 10 more years, it just came out on Xbox, we're getting a graphics update, new expansion, etc. If it were in trouble, they wouldn't bother. People always come and go in MMOs but I think the population will mostly stagnate in the next few years.

I think XIV will only lose a significant amount of players when we completely stop getting new story/content/patches (aka maintenance mode). But that won't happen anytime soon.

[Jeeqbit]

if this was any other game company people would have been up in arms with how the game is doing right now

I mean, plenty of people are (many of those people have quit or just take long breaks while complaining on the forums or discord about job simplification).

But plenty of people are not up in arms. You know why? Because the truth is, a lot of people like simple jobs ie. SMN and WAR's popularity and find the challenge of extreme and savage alright ie. all the people who can't do rockbreaker2 even if you help them for a few hours, or the people who couldn't do double meteor and gales2 in farm parties nevermind clear parties.

Players are just split and SE has chosen their side already.

lack of Yoshida doing hotfixes for these issue, an industry standard at this point in ALL online games mind you.

I guess they just disagree that it's an issue. I usually see hotfixes when things are actually an issue, so it's probably just your opinion.

I never understand this "Don't listen to the forums" argument. Isn't everyone on here one of those players casual or not...

The majority of people on the forums tend to be... veteran players, who have burned through all the content that they are going to and came here to complain they are bored. Humans don't like change, so naturally, said veteran players will constantly complain about how things have changed from when they started.

Meanwhile, all the newer players have plenty of content to sink their teeth into and don't have some past that they yearn for as if they are Emet-Selch.

So if you go into the game itself it's more likely to be a balanced mix of veteran, casual, returning and newer players.

You may see the same type of responses yourself but it does kinda depend where you actually hang out. Different subsets of the community will give you a very different experience in how satisfied they are with the game. If your FC contains mainly veteran players from Heavensward then... of course, they will probably be pretty tired of all the changes over the years because humans often don't like change.

This rotation of end game players with new game players In ARR, ShB, and EW isn;t good, we lose as many as we get

You say that, but what if the players we lose, eventually all return to catch up on the MSQ? That does happen. That's what the hundreds of thousands of flower icons are.

[Gordita]

Then ppl would confuse it for shadowbringers lol

That's what we call a genuine skill issue.

[strawberrycake]

All this

I say this with all the niceness i can muster, You can stop jock riding SE my guy, they literally wait patch for patch regularly to fix the bulk of issues this game has, it's at the end of every major and minor patch note we get. I've been in this community for years and again the amount of players I've seen leave, and NOT come back and the amount of bulk new players this game get isn't a good thing, it's why raiding half way through every expansion in PF becomes sad, because people get filtered from lack of consistent game support. Thats proof the content isn't keeping players, and so new players will just get churnned out the same way. That is what happened in ARR, SB and now in EW.

And for the Returners, they come in barely try because the game allows them then get away with the literal bare minimum and make content for people who play the entire expac annoying and more tedious then it should be. And pulling a *what if* means nothing when I'm talking about Several FCs i've been apart of, friends, and members from raid groups. When I'm talking about all of the people who HAVE moved on and feel like no one at CBU3 or SE cares about them.

As far as simple jobs go, people need to realize theres a different between DEPTH and SIMPLICITY, you can have both, has happened before, can happen again. And SE choosing their side is more like people constantly Falaciating the game over just letting the criticisms mount up in their faces and benefiting from the passiveness. And the humans don't like change bit? My guy you have SO many people on here asking for just that, change, change that is consistent with what the game needs to be functional for ALL.

We've literally have had people break down WHY the 2 min meta is mathematically bad, we've had people show that the GM system is failed and needs to be reworked, we literally are seeing SE show that is cannot manage itself as a company properly and lost 2 BILLION in Value and instead of people QUESTIONING if maybe that same inability to manage themselves properly affected this game, we just get more excuses from people who are missing the forest for the tree top.

Point it stop coming on here making excuses for them and let them face the music like ANY OTHER billion Dollar company. SE can do better, and until we treat them like the billion dollar company they are, they won't. It's that simple. They aren't your friends.

But yeah let's watch our sub money go into Crypto and NFTs for no reason and ignore that to.

Also I love how no one can ever answer if they'd give any other Major Live Service game this much benefit of the doubt, gotta cherry pick to save face. Good Old XIV community.

[OdinelStarrei]

I mean, plenty of people are (many of those people have quit or just take long breaks while complaining on the forums or discord about job simplification).

But plenty of people are not up in arms. You know why? Because the truth is, a lot of people like simple jobs ie. SMN and WAR's popularity and find the challenge of extreme and savage alright ie. all the people who can't do rockbreaker2 even if you help them for a few hours, or the people who couldn't do double meteor and gales2 in farm parties nevermind clear parties.

This is ridiculous! SMN and WAR didn't used to be like that! What happens to the players who you take away the jobs from? Does no one think, "Yeah, it kinda sucks for the players who are getting screwed over every time the developers do a simplification rework." I really don't think the ends of more players playing a job justify the means of ruining that job for the people who loved it, and stuck with it. If people can't handle it, make newer, simple jobs then.

I do not play WAR anymore because of what they did. I don't play SMN because of what they did. Those were some of my most-played jobs. I don't trust them to touch any job in the game because of what they continue to do. It's eroding the little faith I have in good, fundamental gameplay because people are lazy, and SE keeps catering to them. Do you not feel insulted, that SE thinks so little of the majority that the game needs to be dumbed down? Because of how stupid they think everyone is? How absolutely unable they are to do basic actions? How unengaged and flaky they must be to give up if they don't win immediately and all the time? Doesn't that bother you at all?

Players are just split and SE has chosen their side already.

Exactly, they chose a side when they didn't have to. We were totally fine in Stormblood where we had diverse but easier jobs than HW, Ultimates, and tons of midcore content. There was no need to have "sides" back then. They screwed that up, and now everyone is acting like it's a zero sum game, where if I'm happy with the game, everyone else who isn't like me is going to have an AWFUL time, and if you're happy, I'm automatically going to have an AWFUL time. There was a point where I trusted CBU3 not to screw something up if they put their grubby hands on it, you know.

I guess they just disagree that it's an issue. I usually see hotfixes when things are actually an issue, so it's probably just your opinion.

If they disagree, how about telling us then? Why guess? Why do I have to keep guessing on what the developers think outside of "remove everything I like". How about actually opening a dialogue to see what some pain points are in the collective rather than taking an axe to a problem that requires a scalpel? How about actually communicating with your playerbase for something beyond telling us when we can expect the next patch with the same stuff we've been getting so it can be predicted down the date of release, or when we can purchase the next over-priced, character locked merchandise?

The majority of people on the forums tend to be... veteran players, who have burned through all the content that they are going to and came here to complain they are bored. Humans don't like change, so naturally, said veteran players will constantly complain about how things have changed from when they started.

Meanwhile, all the newer players have plenty of content to sink their teeth into and don't have some past that they yearn for as if they are Emet-Selch.

Really man? So because I am a veteran, and really frustrated that SE continues to ignore the support role, actively remove things that I find enjoyable in the game, and have essentially called the entire playerbase too stupid to have gameplay that extends beyond 1-2-3 guage builder+spend based on the "uuuuu, we're happy we're extending 5.0 job design, more players like it like this!!!" I can be equated to an omnicidal, depressed lunatic. Very cool. Next, I'm sure you'll tell me this relic series is totally uncontroversial because more people did it. Just say it properly. Newer players are easier to please because they don't know any better. They didn't have a game they liked rug-pulled. That's it.

You may see the same type of responses yourself but it does kinda depend where you actually hang out. Different subsets of the community will give you a very different experience in how satisfied they are with the game. If your FC contains mainly veteran players from Heavensward then... of course, they will probably be pretty tired of all the changes over the years because humans often don't like change.

Statements like this really bother me, because I honestly am fine with change. Eureka was a change. Expert Crafting was a change. Shadowbringers narratively was a change. I liked those things. Just because something is changing, doesn't automatically mean I'm going to hate it. One of my best friends in this game started in 5.4 (I started in 3.3 for reference), brought all of his friends from other games with him, and they hate the direction the game is going. Why do you have to pigeon hole people in your statements, and not treat them like they are individuals instead of a hivemind? Oh no, the Heavensward players are complaining again!~ Better ignore everything they are saying! If I am having a GOOD time with things in the game, and the DEVELOPERS remove the things I like doing, what the hell am I supposed to do? Just sit there and take it like a good little consumer? No no, I'm supposed to "vote with my wallet" and leave, regardless of any investment/friend groups/sunk cost fallacies that may get in the way. I'm supposed to be objective when it comes to viewing the game as a product, but because I'm "human", I'm fated to hate whatever the dev team does, it seems.

You say that, but what if the players we lose, eventually all return to catch up on the MSQ? That does happen. That's what the hundreds of thousands of flower icons are.

Returners don't make the game more fun to play. They are a metric, and a source of income for SE. Returners didn't give me an exploration zone in Endwalker, in fact, they didn't do anything for me in Endwalker. Unless my guild are the returners, I don't care about them. I'm not a god-forsaken shareholder. I'm a player who keeps getting things taken away, and keeps getting talked down to by the developers, and by you.

I straight up don't understand you guys. You're already winning. You already have the game you want, and continue to enjoy. You have a legion of players who are going to keep this game alive at least as long as FFXI, if not longer. That is not going to change, it simply won't. So why are you rubbing my face in the dirt and insulting us over it? Is it not enough for you that the game is doing what you want and that anyone who isn't a fan of the direction is progressively getting shoved out? Why do you need to support them for screwing over me and my friends?

[Kes13a]

Also I love how no one can ever answer if they'd give any other Major Live Service game this much benefit of the doubt, gotta cherry pick to save face. Good Old XIV community.

they dont need to answer because THEY DO.

WoW was circling the toilet ring for YEARS with garbage expansions lackluster support etc, a gauge which FFXIV quite frankly pales in comparison to. it took real world scandals to jar people loose from giving them a pass on their... garbage.

unless you just have never played any other live service game, you seem to be cherry picking a lot yourself. they are ALL like this. as long as people are enjoying the game, things are let slide, simply because no game, company or business is ever going to be perfect. but you are free to try it yourself and see.

[strawberrycake]

they dont need to answer because THEY DO.

WoW was circling the toilet ring for YEARS with garbage expansions lackluster support etc, a gauge which FFXIV quite frankly pales in comparison to. it took real world scandals to jar people loose from giving them a pass on their... garbage.

unless you just have never played any other live service game, you seem to be cherry picking a lot yourself. they are ALL like this. as long as people are enjoying the game, things are let slide, simply because no game, company or business is ever going to be perfect. but you are free to try it yourself and see.

to be fair there's probably tons of nefarious places our money ends up when it leaves our pockets, but people still gonna buy what they want. who knows if the local coffee shop you go to donates to anti lgbt movements? i cant live my life in fear of not knowing where my money is gonna end up

Both missing the point part for part as per usual. I'm specifically talking about the people who act like Yoshida isn't like any other suit, or that SE isn't like any other business. Saying some assinine nonsense like *but they all do it* or *I can't live in fear of where my kney goes* Is funny ,because if Bungie, ubisoft, Blizzard, Capcom, Namco, Bandai, to name a few, did anything like that people would literally have pitch forks. Se does it and no one bats an eye.

We could you know, hold them to a standard and stop letting a company just get away with murder. And if you don't care to do that or care for i've said why interact with my post? You don't care if this game dies so why are you here?

Also for the cherry picking bit, you must of really thought You were the target demographic for that one huh?

[strawberrycake]

That is not going to change, it simply won't. So why are you rubbing my face in the dirt and insulting us over it? Is it not enough for you that the game is doing what you want and that anyone who isn't a fan of the direction is progressively getting shoved out? Why do you need to support them for screwing over me and my friends?

Because most of the SE jock riders are on the up now and feel the need to protect the status quo. Yet when the game was more oriented towards high end and mid core we advocated for the casuals and low end to be seen as well. Crazy how they can't do the same.

[strawberrycake]

idk if you read my posts because im clearly shitting on ffxiv while still being hopeful for dawntrail.. it's not like im white knighting. ALSO, people did boycott WOW for all that sexual harassment shit a while ago but hey looks like they get a redemption arc with dragonflight. giving companies a pass is not unique to SE.

I did read your post and again this is more then just shitting on them or white knighting, It's about more then you being able to see the issues with SE, MULTIPLE people on here still can't yoink Yoshidas package away from their face and admit the game can be better.