What if we just removed Tank invulns

[Nicola_Kunu]

I am in favour of making this game a bit harder.

Some context that led me to this thought:
I had the pleasure to do Deltascape V4.0 MILNE this weekend for the first time, it was a lot of fun. However, I had someone in the party repeatedly insist that I use my invuln to invalidate some of the tankbusters. Thankfully my co-tank was happy to do tankswaps + tankstacks with me for the relevant tankbusters.

I also did UwU blind up until the final phase with a static and tankswapped every Ifrit tankbuster. I didn't find out until after clearing it that most people invuln it.

I don't like the idea of trivialising a mechanic - I can already trivialise other mechanics that would kill a DPS or Healer by virtue of simply playing a Tank class. In my mind, trivialising any mechanic from any of the trinity (Tank/DPS/Healer) isn't fun.
I want to play this content!


I realise that this means that if one tank dies and a tankbuster comes out, the surviving tank cannot use their invuln as an emergency button. So I also propose only having it be available when the co-tank dies. Or maybe. . . they should just die. . . ?


I also realise that I'm biased in that I've cleared Savage + some Ultimate content, and the average player probably has a lower skill level. But I don't know if the average player even pops their invuln in regular content anyway, so what are they really losing~?

[rawker]

But you can self-impose it to not use invulns when you tank.. Why must everyone else be dragged along?

In fact, you can simply remove it on your hotbar.

[Nicola_Kunu]

You can absolutely self-impose it, and I did self-impose it in Deltascape V4.0.

However, it still made me think it might be too much of a crutch. I want players to have to struggle more for their achievements. No more Lazy Lasers on P12S P1. Swap roles into positions for the beams like God intended.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Removal of invulns is completely okay, all we need is an additional defensive in its place. Can be a strong one on level of Diamondback, but we definitely need it. The Omega Protocol necessitates more defensives.

[GoatOfWar]

I wouldn't mind seeing them go. For flavor, maybe let 1 tank keep theirs, but on a 10minute cooldown.
But yeah, throughout the tiers i've seen people invuln tank busters left and right instead of mitigating because of how free invulns are.
I'd like to see a stronger emphasis on actual damage mitigation in the next expansion.

[Valence]

I don't like the idea because it removes player agency, the same way that tank LB3 can also cheese a mechanic. I like having the ability to choose whenever I want to nullify a specific mechanic, and having to choose which. It brings tactical agency, and this game has already removed way too much of the battle system choices and player agency to my tastes, and I don't even play tank.

Which brings me to my point though: make all invulns a one per fight card only. You can keep the different recast timers in dungeons and multifight scenari to account for Hallowed being technically superior to anything else so it has a higher recast, but each tank should be allowed only one invuln per fight, and that's it.

[rawker]

You can absolutely self-impose it, and I did self-impose it in Deltascape V4.0.

However, it still made me think it might be too much of a crutch. I want players to have to struggle more for their achievements. No more Lazy Lasers on P12S P1. Swap roles into positions for the beams like God intended.

And when it gets removed, another cheese strat will surface. It's a cycle. People will always find a way to make things easier. Now you can argue that it's where the fun is but not all people are like that. It's all fine but let people have their fun. Just because I find something unfun or so dirty, SE needs to fix/remove it.

[Absurdity]

I wouldn't mind seeing them go. For flavor, maybe let 1 tank keep theirs, but on a 10minute cooldown.
But yeah, throughout the tiers i've seen people invuln tank busters left and right instead of mitigating because of how free invulns are.
I'd like to see a stronger emphasis on actual damage mitigation in the next expansion.

I would be fine with the removal of invulns and stronger emphasis on damage mitigation IF our mitigation tools were in any way interesting and/or varied.
Removing invulns and replacing them with just another "press button to take X% less damage for Y seconds" for every tank is not interesting.

[Arohk]

Tank invuls are fine, you can play everything without them, when we cleared Ucob we didnt use invuls for any tankbusters, we always kept them for emergencies. However, there are tankbusters like Flatten that do an insane amount of damage and require well timed mitigation and heals, so i dont see the problem if people want to use a long cooldown to survive that, after all, 2/4 of them require the tank to be healed back up from 1 HP, so it can just cost you more healing.

[Rithy255]

Removing tank invuls would basically be just removing yet another thing that makes tanks slightly different.