QoL and reducing number of the buttons suggestion

[Gordita]

As someone who plays on controller and uses the expanded (double tap) controls for shared hotbars with mounts, menus, and consumables, I am 110% onboard with having a 1 button combo for the basic 123. Those extra hotbar spaces are the exact amount of space needed to make some jobs for on to two xhb. The way I look at it, is anything over 32 buttons is unplayable on controller. I've been unable to use double tap for combat since 5.3 because it causes immense pain in my hands after being stuck in trap parties for 20 hours trying to clear emerald extreme on crystal. (Transferred to aether shortly after and was able to clear in 1 pull with a random pug)
Pls reduce all job actions to a maximum total of 32. IDC how it's achieved.

[Kuroka]

I've been unable to use double tap for combat since 5.3 because it causes immense pain in my hands after being stuck in trap parties for 20 hours trying to clear emerald extreme on crystal. (Transferred to aether shortly after and was able to clear in 1 pull with a random pug)
Pls reduce all job actions to a maximum total of 32. IDC how it's achieved.

Aside from such issues, on some situations i dont manage to switch layers fast enough so i need some buttons on more then one layer, or else i just switch to much around...

[Mr_Gyactus]

I believe this will be a great QoL change and also a great way to reduce the number of buttons in the game.

I believe it's not.
it would ruin the whole flavor of the jobs: starting from the openings (flats), making positionals and various abilities useless (form shift and perfect balance for example), and finishing with the management of dots and buffs.

[CelestiCer]

It has been bothering me for the longest time.
Why assign individual keys for simple 1,2,3 combos?

Oki Doki, so I am going to imagine this

• My Keyboard setup now: 123/145/1Q
• Vs what People want to suggest: 111/111/111

Mhm mhm, okey Searching for Japanese venue so I can RP Seppuku there...

[TheDustyOne]

Oki Doki, so I am going to imagine this

• My Keyboard setup now: 123/145/1Q
• Vs what People want to suggest: 111/111/111

Mhm mhm, okey Searching for Japanese venue so I can RP Seppuku there...

Condensed combos on SAM would be 111/222/33, not 111/111/11 as you suggest. The point of it is not to remove the depth of a job, but to remove the bloat.

Samurai during ST gameplay has 4 choices with its main GCD loop; Gekko combo, Kasha combo, Yukikaze combo, and Iaijutsu. I'm ignoring the burst GCDs here since they're only used a few times every 2 minutes. Why should 4 choices require 7 buttons when 4 does the job without sacrificing any gameplay depth? You yourself have agreed with other options for condensation to facilitate bringing back Kaiten (something I very much agree with you on), so how does condensing the combos dumb the job down? Conversely, would separating Ogi Namikiri and Kaeshi: Namakiri somehow make the job less dumbed down? What about splitting Iaijutsu into 3 separate buttons? Why would condensed combos lead to a worse result compared to say, having Ikishoten transform into Ogi Namikiri?

About the only thing lost is the possibility of restarting a combo intentionally, which is something so incredibly niche that only a handful of jobs even consider it in the most obscure optimization situations. The only job that would be actively made detrimental from condensed combos would be Monk, as it's the only job that can make meaningful decisions outside the usual combo order, and as such is the only job I don't want to see condensed combos on. If the fear is that more jobs would "be more like healers" because they'd only press 1 button 12 times before pressing something else, then it already plays like a healer and it only has the illusion of being more complex (looking at you DRK).

More buttons =/= more complex gameplay.

[CelestiCer]

Condensed combos on SAM would be 111/222/33, not 111/111/11 as you suggest. The point of it is not to remove the depth of a job, but to remove the bloat.

That's how it's suggested to me on the DPS forum so I just copy pasted the suggestion made to turn into 111/111/111. Even 111/222/33 I don't find great at all and there are so many ways to remove bloat. That's like telling me how you want the game to be more bland without telling me you want the game to be more bland, personal opinion though.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.

Using this logic, we can also ask why there are multiple buttons at all and why rotations aren't just 1 button like healers or in certain MSQ duties. The answer is so that, well, everything isn't just 1 button.

Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.

What would be the point of having a combo at all if it's just one button?

So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.

I believe it's not.
it would ruin the whole flavor of the jobs: starting from the openings (flats), making positionals and various abilities useless (form shift and perfect balance for example), and finishing with the management of dots and buffs.

1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.

Oki Doki, so I am going to imagine this

• My Keyboard setup now: 123/145/1Q
• Vs what People want to suggest: 111/111/111

Mhm mhm, okey Searching for Japanese venue so I can RP Seppuku there...

Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:

• Every single Monk weaponskill
• Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
• Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot

So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.
NOTE 2 - clearly math is a bit hard and I miscalculated on SAM as well. Damnit.

Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.

[Gordita]

I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.


Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.

So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.

1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.

Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:

• Every single Monk weaponskill
• Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
• Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot

So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.

Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.

Sadly people come here to argue and troll more than to seek solutions, and they either ignore the obvious or don't know what they're talking about. I'm surprised you took the time to spell it out for them. Smh

[AsiTsurugi]

I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.


Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.

So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.

1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.

Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:

• Every single Monk weaponskill
• Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
• Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot

So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.

Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.

Specifically for SAM, this type of counting for consolidation does not work because of the existence of Meikyo and necessity of random-sized fillers (in at least some fights, and definitely during prog). At best, this would deduct 3 buttons for single target, which would, admittedly, still be a better solution than removing Kaiten because some clowns who barely play the class "don't like it".

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Specifically for SAM, this type of counting for consolidation does not work because of the existence of Meikyo and necessity of random-sized fillers (in at least some fights, and definitely during prog). At best, this would deduct 3 buttons for single target, which would, admittedly, still be a better solution than removing Kaiten because some clowns who barely play the class "don't like it".

Consolidating combos for Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze, Mangetsu and Oka would have no bearing on what you can do as a Samurai gameplay wise.

Meikyo Shisui on combo finishers grants their respective damage and haste effects, so you have no reason to use those stacks for Jinpu or Shifu. Furthermore, if for any reason you want to run fillers you have Enpi (particularly after Hissatsu: Yaten) and for whatever strange reason you want to break your combo after Jinpu/Shifu you simply press the Hakaze combo starter of a different combo.

The only thing this will prevent you from doing is intentionally using Hakaze repeatedly. Which I'd genuinely ask why you'd want to do that.