QoL and reducing number of the buttons suggestion

[Supersnow845]

You can also use the regular LR hotbars KBM people use to act as timers for actions that are on hotbars that aren’t visible at the current time

For example I used to keep the actions on my healers I’d press more than once per 30 seconds or so on my main hotbar then my extended hotbars (double tap L or R) would have my more rarely used actions (like say temperance or dissipation), you can then put their icons on LR hotbars and put them off to the side so you can track the timer even if the cross hotbar they are on isn’t visible

Also double tapping L or R on cross hotbar 1 and 3 can be set to both times pop up cross hotbar 2, on my tanks I used to put single target actions on hotbar 1, AOE on 3 and since both popped up hotbar 2 when double tapping L or R I would put my mitigation on 2

The cross hotbar system is actually incredible if you know how to use it, it’s not remotely a limitation (controllers only real limitation is excessive soft targeting like on AST), you just have to know how to use it

[TheDustyOne]

Targeting is easily the biggest drawback to controller and is the biggest reason why I refuse healer on controller. It wouldn't be so bad if there were macros to soft-target (not hard-target) a specific party member, I at least have the hotbar space for that, but hard targeting via macros is still annoying when I need to swap back to the boss and relying on the d-pad for soft targeting is also needlessly cumbersome.

[Mikey_R]

This may sound like a strange question, but how can you have problems with buttons? I mean, on a PC. On Ps it's probably another problem, but there are so many keys on the keyboard that I don't think it's possible to have problems with that?

Whilst your questions about controller space have been answered, there is one nit pick I do want to address. It isn't just a case of how many buttons/kays are available, but how many are easily accessible.

As an extreme hypothetical, I could have an input device with 1000 buttons, you have no problems with running out of room, however, they aren't all going to be easily accessible and practical for combat.

As someone who doesn't use KB+M I cannot make a comment from first hand experience, however, from what I have read/seen over the years, most people only use 2 modifiers, sometimes 3, which is a total of 4 hotbars worth of actions, however, they rarely, if ever use all 10 slots on each hotbar. They instead saving them for more obscure/out of combat things, just because they cannot easily access them during combat.

Again though, this might just be a case of people not setting up their settings right, or not making full use of the options available, I am wholly ignorant in that respect.

[CelestiCer]

I love how the first page of this forum currently has threads complaining that the game is too dumbed down and threads asking for the game to be dumbed down. Hats off to the devs that have to make sense of it all.

The contrast is uncanny, I see Healer players who wish to do a bit more even a slither... and ironically we have others wanting something like DPS Melee's be more towards what Healer players are complaining about...

I really fail to see the logic as well...

On one hand? players believe Mechanics increases PvE combat complexity, when Square shown* zero intention to do so, unless it's Ultimate... Of which is not for everyone. Players counter-suggest this with Job-Depth as optionality? and get shut-down, or worse? Suggestions to make the homogenized Jobs? that much more simplified.

- Increased Hitboxes
- Melee uptime made a Joke
- Buff and Shielding radius are massive
- Job homogenizations
- The 2-min-meta
- Bosses teleporting to center of arena more
- One button rotation Jobs either GCD or OGCD

And it's not enough apparently. We have players in this thread who aren't max level on certain Jobs and suggest those to be pruned based on Combo filler?... I have a hard time taking that serious as many can't find me serious cause Kaiten ( hehe I shoved that in there )

Whenever I played an MMO and i see a Job I like and the game decides to " streamline it " the gameplay suffers, it becomes stale, shallow, and bland. Many will like it for its comfiness? but it ultimately makes the game-play easier, with the companies promise to improve upon that new empty-gap they made in Jobs... Which they never do. Old features replaced? for the sake of no New once worth mentioning or none at all. Fondness for the game dies, MMO in and MMO out, now I finally end up here and I see it again with XIV... Different game? same thing. Consolidating Bloat is fine, if its sensible... Combo Button compressing as the first solution players can think of, to me is not what improves the game it, just makes it comfier for the sake of comfiness.

" Optimizing how Comfy the game can be shouldn't be the definition of improved gameplay "

[TheDustyOne]

I use ctrl and alt on my side mouse buttons since I find it annoying to reach those 2 modifiers, shift isn't as bad. I can technically then use all 3 + combinations of them for a total of 8 hotbars (96 slots), I'd quit the game if we had to use 8 hotbars on jobs simply because "we had the space for it".

[Gemina]

Targeting is easily the biggest drawback to controller and is the biggest reason why I refuse healer on controller. It wouldn't be so bad if there were macros to soft-target (not hard-target) a specific party member, I at least have the hotbar space for that, but hard targeting via macros is still annoying when I need to swap back to the boss and relying on the d-pad for soft targeting is also needlessly cumbersome.

It's not that bad. If you're used to KBM, then I would suspect the additional button presses to target allies and enemies is horrendous, but cast time negates this if you're on controller. Since you should be weaving oGCD heals anyway, the cast time gives you ample time to select the desired party member while executing your spell. The only drawback to controller targeting that I have come across is it takes your ability away to slide cast. However, inputs you assign to the D-pad already do this, which is why you should only assign abilities and spells that are instant to those keys.

[Merrigan]

Whilst your questions about controller space have been answered, there is one nit pick I do want to address. It isn't just a case of how many buttons/kays are available, but how many are easily accessible.

As an extreme hypothetical, I could have an input device with 1000 buttons, you have no problems with running out of room, however, they aren't all going to be easily accessible and practical for combat.

As someone who doesn't use KB+M I cannot make a comment from first hand experience, however, from what I have read/seen over the years, most people only use 2 modifiers, sometimes 3, which is a total of 4 hotbars worth of actions, however, they rarely, if ever use all 10 slots on each hotbar. They instead saving them for more obscure/out of combat things, just because they cannot easily access them during combat.

Again though, this might just be a case of people not setting up their settings right, or not making full use of the options available, I am wholly ignorant in that respect.

But are there enough of them accessible?

[Mr_Gyactus]

Targeting is easily the biggest drawback to controller and is the biggest reason why I refuse healer on controller. It wouldn't be so bad if there were macros to soft-target (not hard-target) a specific party member, I at least have the hotbar space for that, but hard targeting via macros is still annoying when I need to swap back to the boss and relying on the d-pad for soft targeting is also needlessly cumbersome.

some hint.

1. character configuration -> cross hotbars -> cross hotbars: HOLD. D-cross make you choose the target in the party with a circular list [1]<->[2]<->[3]<->[1]
2. /ac "Cure" <mo> you put your mouse where you want in the list and .. don't touch it xD
3 /ac "Cure" <focus> I let you guess what it does.

[Gordita]

... Yet another reason why the use of a controller should not necessarily be permitted.

And I know my answer is rather unsympathetic, sorry. But let's just say that console integration is starting to become far too restrictive in a number of ways.

The big problem is that limiting the number of actions would force the devs to adopt a radically different gamedesign from what we've had in previous expansions. Lately it's worked like this: adding one or two skills, sometimes unnecessary, but without ever reviewing the system in depth, except for 'critical' classes. It's also quite dangerous when you consider the reactions sometimes... Strong, as soon as there's a change that goes too far.

Final fantasy was a console game first, so PC integration is becoming a problem with all the people on PC acting like they matter more as they all use bots to destroy markets and game balance etc.

[Colt47]

Not sure if this relates to the problem of buttons, but the choice to homogenize the jobs is sort of a design decision more than a right or wrong thing. As I recall, one of the things that Yoshi P. had said ages ago is that he would not have locked jobs behind using specific weapons, as it would make sense a warrior might use a sword, axe, hammer, etc, and wizards would probably use wands, staves, books, whatever they need as a focus. Homogenizing the jobs is a compromise where you technically are playing a different job, but the skills under the job are linked to a role rather than a class, so that way it is more an aesthetic choice which one someone plays. Sort of like having a prebuilt specialization in other MMOs.

Its also a solution to getting people out of a ditch they dig for themselves. What I mean by this is that if the jobs remained unique completely, one advantage would be each job would be an experience onto itself, and if someone wanted to play that job to the highest level, they'd need a good chunk of time to get used to all the skills and how to use them right. This in turn can make it intimidating to swap to another job even in the same role since the two would be completely different even if they share the same gear. So having them work more closely like each other means that it is easier to try different jobs.

The part that is sort of hidden under all this is that homogenizing the jobs is also a way to make it easier for developers to support the jobs. They keep wanting to add new jobs each expansion, and if they kept the original jobs as complex as they were, each job would require unique maintenance from the developers to make sure it was still playable. So this is them trying to modularize jobs so they are an aesthetic choice in a role and role skills are what the base skills are of the true class.

Just throwing this out there since someone earlier was starting to talk about the job homogenization and maybe was thinking this was simplifying the skills or making the skills more complex when it's kind of its own thing.