QoL and reducing number of the buttons suggestion

[CelestiCer]

...SAM, Tsubame-gaeshi could probably be worked into the Iaijutsu button. Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri probably could also just be one button.

Yay take Samurai as example. Square could have consolidated/fused/merged/upgraded(etc)

. Shoha 1 + Shoha 2
. Ogi Namikiri + Ikishoten
. Guren + Senei
. Shinten + Kyuten ( if you must )
. Iaijutsu + Tsubame ( if you must )

35 Buttons to 30 Buttons. Excl Role/Item/Other buttons i.e Tincture/Feint/Potion/SecondWind/Bloodbath/Limitbreak/Sprint/Legsweep and we Job-wise have 22 at least on Samurai as it is regarded as one of the Jobs with bloat.

Forget theorisation PvE combat system overhaul, in this current format and system... do we want/need it to be less then 22 buttons, Jobwise? I am noticing someone in this thread is a Lv61 Samurai and thinks that it has to many buttons at Lv61... Wondering how much of this is a Design-Issue vs Gameplay-Issue vs Balance-Issue vs Keyboard/Controller-Issue vs Skill-Issue vs I just want everything to be that much more comfier for the sake of making it more comfier.

Another solution is for Square to embed Role skills as tiny buffs imbedded into our Skill kit to remove Bloat

. Certain skills activating shorter anti knockback buff
. Certain Combo Filler grants shorter True North buff
. BloodBath granted upon SecondWind adjust its balance and cooldown

To do away with TrueNorth/Bloodbath/Arms-Length. Not even gone say these are great suggestions to remove some bloat or would improve gameplay cause this makes it dumber in some sense to me? I'm just spit-balling ideas for the sake of giving hypothetical compromises... but all of the above mentioned Square can't even do... and instead? we have players suggesting removal of Combo buttons...

We can't even have Sprint be a button that feels like an OGCD it feels like I have to hammer press it compared to other buttons to even activate it ( is that just me? )

[TheDustyOne]

We can't even have Sprint be a button that feels like an OGCD it feels like I have to hammer press it compared to other buttons to even activate it ( is that just me? )

Sprint is a little weird, potions and Limit Break too, they don't queue like normal skills. I found it better to put Sprint and LB on a 15 line macro to emulate skill queue.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Certain skills activating shorter anti knockback buff

Love your post overall, just wanted to chime in on that one - they literally cannot do that anymore because they designed their fights into a corner.

Dragonsong's Reprise Phase 2 "Sanctity of the Ward" requires use of anti-knockback properties to resolve the mechanic without any target available. Arm's Length & Surecast, with current fight design, literally cannot be consolidated.

[CelestiCer]

I'm just digging in a bit; how does it make it bland? The choice is never intentionally made to press Jinpu before Hakaze, and, at least in my gameplay, fat-fingering happens once in a blue moon. Blandness would be more like, well, removing Kaiten, since that actually was a meaningful part of the kit. Even on the DPS forums I see it being asked for just the combos being condensed, not the entire GCD rotation.

Done this conversation before and what I did? was hit the striking dummy with the hypothetical rotation. It feels more bland to me and that's coming from a person that nearly only plays Samurai.

A lot of simplifications hit my Job that made it easier and easier and easier while giving nothing in return for complexity, depth, nuance to just make it more bland. So my point is more towards I draw the line at " Somewhere " at how much more bland/flavorless and dumber Square wants to make Job-Designs vs " Nowhere ". And this is just Samurai topic ( I am passionate about it... or was... ) I haven't even brought the topic of say Healers into the conversation... so I respectfully disagree. I will agree to do away with combo buttons? sure... If they give us a lot more flavor/flare and depth, which Square still has not done they have no track record of doing so not even as optional Skill-Ceiling, mhm

Love your post overall, just wanted to chime in on that one - they literally cannot do that anymore because they designed their fights into a corner.

Dragonsong's Reprise Phase 2 "Sanctity of the Ward" requires use of anti-knockback properties to resolve the mechanic without any target available. Arm's Length & Surecast, with current fight design, literally cannot be consolidated.

Yay I thought of Third Eye as a perhaps? but honestly it would be really pruning so much vs the fights we already have

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Yay I thought of Third Eye as a perhaps? but honestly it would be really pruning so much vs the fights we already have

Unless Third Eye gets extended to 6s or has two charges can't see that happening.

[CaptainLagbeard]

. Shoha 1 + Shoha 2
. Guren + Senei
. Shinten + Kyuten ( if you must )

The only way to combine those would be if you just gave the AoE version the potency of the single target version... Which for most bosses wouldn't matter but if there was ever any fight where you had adds or even a second boss, they'd become rather powerful.

The biggest thing for pruning extra buttons is more that you have skills that require a different skill or a buff from a different attack to use... Like for SAM, you can't use Tsubame without Iaijutsu, or Namikiri without Ikosihoten.

[TheDustyOne]

Done this conversation before and what I did? was hit the striking dummy with the hypothetical rotation. It feels more bland to me and that's coming from a person that nearly only plays Samurai.

A lot of simplifications hit my Job that made it easier and easier and easier while giving nothing in return for complexity, depth, nuance to just make it more bland. So my point is more towards I draw the line at " Somewhere " at how much more bland/flavorless and dumber Square wants to make Job-Designs vs " Nowhere ". And this is just Samurai topic ( I am passionate about it... or was... ) I haven't even brought the topic of say Healers into the conversation... so I respectfully disagree. I will agree to do away with combo buttons? sure... If they give us a lot more flavor/flare and depth, which Square still has not done they have no track record of doing so not even as optional Skill-Ceiling, mhm

Part of the problem with testing out a hypothetical rotation is the lack of feedback from animation changes. I've done similar when trying out my healer rework ideas to get a quick "feel" of it and it's not good at all. It's very much a agree to disagree thing with us, I'm not super attached to the combos one way or the other, but if I had the choice of removing potentially core parts of a kit to "make room" for more skills in the future vs condensing the combos and keeping the same depth for less space, well I'd rather lose out-of-combo Jinpu than Kaiten.

RDM is one of the jobs I love to bits, back in SB it used to have dedicated buttons for Verholy and Verflare. Going into ShB they instead condensed the 2 buttons behind Veraero and Verthunder, the result was more or less that nothing changed in gameplay, they just gained 2 slots. 1 of those slots was used for a new skill; Reprise, a skill dedicated for movement and realigning our Dualcast windows with oGCDs, so we gained depth for less buttons, that's the main thing I'm concerned with really for jobs; more depth overall, button count is irrelevant to that. GNB is another one that condensed buttons and it more or less worked, Gnashing combo is only 1 button, but outside some initial complaints, people got used to it and they found more important things to complain about with that job.

I do agree that Square doesn't have a good track record around adding extra depth. As much as I can argue in favour of condensed combos for more skill space, I don't expect Square to make good skills in those spaces.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The only way to combine those would be if you just gave the AoE version the potency of the single target version... Which for most bosses wouldn't matter but if there was ever any fight where you had adds or even a second boss, they'd become rather powerful.

The biggest thing for pruning extra buttons is more that you have skills that require a different skill or a buff from a different attack to use... Like for SAM, you can't use Tsubame without Iaijutsu, or Namikiri without Ikosihoten.

Or, since at least Heavensward, give the single target version the AOE effect with reduced potency. Hissatsu: Guren already has the "and 25% less for all remaining enemies" clause for AOEing (500 -> 375 potency), an upgrade to Hissatsu: Senei could be justified turning the line AOE into a frontal cone and reducing the potency by -50% for all further targets (400 potency, close to the original 375 AOE potency from Guren).

[CelestiCer]

The only way to combine those would be if you just gave the AoE version the potency of the single target version... Which for most bosses wouldn't matter but if there was ever any fight where you had adds or even a second boss, they'd become rather powerful.

The biggest thing for pruning extra buttons is more that you have skills that require a different skill or a buff from a different attack to use... Like for SAM, you can't use Tsubame without Iaijutsu, or Namikiri without Ikosihoten.

Essentially turn the suggest skills all into AoE, have the 1st target hit full damage with everything else hit after with fall off damage. This can be done in some way shape or form ( even if I personally don't like it aesthetically ) with the skills I named for the sake of going to lengths to prune Bloat. ( I see Reinhardt responded already as I was typing this =u= )

Part of the problem with testing out a hypothetical rotation is the lack of feedback from animation changes.

True. This is why I did it with my Eyes closed. I don't look at my hot-bars anymore cause I don't have to... Even when I do this it feels terrible.

I also feel like an outlier. While on the Balance and Raiding Discords with so many Samurai's? no one complains about Bloat, even on Controller. The main complaint is of course Kaiten needing to return. I know we all meme it but we won't get it back cause many don't have hope that gameplay Job-wise will ever improve. " Square doesn't seem to care so why should we care? " attitude. Where as the Forums? I mainly see players who play Samurai as a side Job with the main complaint being bloat to which we already have so many clear obvious solutions that aren't being implemented vs the suggestion being to compress Combo Buttons to solve I guess annoyance? fat-fingering? Making the Job comfier? Controller-Issue? We already have players openly admitting to using XIVCombo, but I guess were going that direction to make that the norm?

The contrast is uncanny, I see Healer players who wish to do a bit more even a slither... and ironically we have others wanting something like DPS Melee's be more towards what Healer players are complaining about...

I really want to love Job-Design like I used to, but Combo Button removal won't do that for me. And if it does happen? it's just another simplification we can throw to the pile of homogenizations while probably again... getting nothing of Depth/Nuance or any optional Complexity in return for it. Just making the Jobs easier for the sake of making it comfier, which can improve the experience for others I guess... It does nothing for me to help me fall in love with my Job again, mhm

[Kuroka]

I've been unable to use double tap for combat since 5.3 because it causes immense pain in my hands after being stuck in trap parties for 20 hours trying to clear emerald extreme on crystal. (Transferred to aether shortly after and was able to clear in 1 pull with a random pug)
Pls reduce all job actions to a maximum total of 32. IDC how it's achieved.

Aside from such issues, on some situations i dont manage to switch layers fast enough so i need some buttons on more then one layer, or else i just switch to much around...