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  1. #1
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,572
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    Using this logic, we can also ask why there are multiple buttons at all and why rotations aren't just 1 button like healers or in certain MSQ duties. The answer is so that, well, everything isn't just 1 button.
    Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.
    Quote Originally Posted by CidHeiral View Post
    What would be the point of having a combo at all if it's just one button?
    So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus View Post
    I believe it's not.
    it would ruin the whole flavor of the jobs: starting from the openings (flats), making positionals and various abilities useless (form shift and perfect balance for example), and finishing with the management of dots and buffs.
    1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
    2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    Oki Doki, so I am going to imagine this
    • My Keyboard setup now: 123/145/1Q
    • Vs what People want to suggest: 111/111/111
    Mhm mhm, okey Searching for Japanese venue so I can RP Seppuku there...
    Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

    I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

    Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

    Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:
    • Every single Monk weaponskill
    • Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
    • Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot
    So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


    NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.
    NOTE 2 - clearly math is a bit hard and I miscalculated on SAM as well. Damnit.

    Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

    This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.
    (6)
    Last edited by Reinhardt_Azureheim; 02-20-2024 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Gordita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2024
    Posts
    193
    Character
    Kinda Chad-ngl
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim View Post
    I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.


    Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.

    So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.

    1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
    2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.

    Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

    I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

    Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

    Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:
    • Every single Monk weaponskill
    • Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
    • Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot
    So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


    NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.

    Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

    This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.
    Sadly people come here to argue and troll more than to seek solutions, and they either ignore the obvious or don't know what they're talking about. I'm surprised you took the time to spell it out for them. Smh
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    AsiTsurugi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    162
    Character
    Asi Tsurugi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim View Post
    I can't believe I feel compelled to sit down and actually type this out because of how many reactions to the combo button consolidation seem to be either complete kneejerk reactions or misinformed.


    Because not every single key is a combo action, they ask specifically for combo action consolidation. Not your whole rotation.

    So using the key multiple times actually nets you a bigger benefit and doesn't generate resources for tapping once. Combos wouldn't go away, just the way you initiate them changes.

    1.) Positionals would not go away, neither would the associated actions. You'd simply trigger them using the same button multiple times in a row.
    2.) Monk is literally not affected by this because it doesn't use the combo system but rather a form system.

    Three separate combo keys for the Samurai combos were already a thing in PvP, namely Gekko combo, Kasha combo and Yukikaze combo. They don't ask you to 111/111/11/Midare here.

    I am very sorry @everyone and @OP especially but I am typing this out in hopes that people might react less harsh about this suggestion.

    Combos are actually a series of Actions with "Combo Action" in the tooltip.

    Consolidating what we refer to as 1-2-3 combos does not infer to any actions that are in fact not combo actions. Actions that depend on a buff are not combo actions. This includes and isn't limited to, just to name a few:
    • Every single Monk weaponskill
    • Dragoon's Fang & Claw + Wheeling Thrust
    • Bard's Refulgent Arrow/Straight Shot
    So how many actions could actually be consolidated by this?


    NOTE - actually WAR consolidates 4 buttons, not 3, I miscounted there.

    Neither is the list negligible in terms of actual button space management nor does it actually impair any of the gameplay if this was, at very least, a choice we could have.

    This list does not consider actions that logically should simply be on the same hotkey (for example "Ikishoten" automatically becoming "Ogi Namikiri" and then "Kaeshi: Namikiri") or should be an upgrade rather than a side grade (Shoha vs Shoha II). Those are all valid issues on their own, but all I wanted to highlight is how much impact such a combo consolidation would have.
    Specifically for SAM, this type of counting for consolidation does not work because of the existence of Meikyo and necessity of random-sized fillers (in at least some fights, and definitely during prog). At best, this would deduct 3 buttons for single target, which would, admittedly, still be a better solution than removing Kaiten because some clowns who barely play the class "don't like it".
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,572
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi View Post
    Specifically for SAM, this type of counting for consolidation does not work because of the existence of Meikyo and necessity of random-sized fillers (in at least some fights, and definitely during prog). At best, this would deduct 3 buttons for single target, which would, admittedly, still be a better solution than removing Kaiten because some clowns who barely play the class "don't like it".
    Consolidating combos for Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze, Mangetsu and Oka would have no bearing on what you can do as a Samurai gameplay wise.

    Meikyo Shisui on combo finishers grants their respective damage and haste effects, so you have no reason to use those stacks for Jinpu or Shifu. Furthermore, if for any reason you want to run fillers you have Enpi (particularly after Hissatsu: Yaten) and for whatever strange reason you want to break your combo after Jinpu/Shifu you simply press the Hakaze combo starter of a different combo.

    The only thing this will prevent you from doing is intentionally using Hakaze repeatedly. Which I'd genuinely ask why you'd want to do that.
    (1)