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  1. #1
    Player
    ZiraZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    536
    Character
    Zira Zira
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    On the flip side, I hope they consolidate all jobs down to 20-25 skills. There's no reason to have more, because more buttons doesn't mean more complexity.
    But we're already there for most jobs if you don't include abilities that can't be bound and pure aoe skills that never get used outside dungeons.
    also Bonus challenge, anyone that wants pvp combos in pve. Go hit the pvp dummies for 9~ min and tell me if you actually had fun playing with a pvp kit against a boss that can't react to your actions, can't crowd control, can't run away from you, and doesn't do anything unscripted.
    (2)

  2. 02-19-2024 04:22 AM

  3. #3
    Player
    ZiraZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    536
    Character
    Zira Zira
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by missTori View Post
    this is the point of confusion im talking about when this topic gets brought up and everyone gets panties in a wad..
    you dont actually have an issue with pvp combos, it's the entirety of scripted pve combat based on a gcd.
    I don't have an issue with pvp combos in pvp because the pvp filler is mostly meaningless busywork to keep low pressure on the enemy, the core of the pvp kit is using cooldowns to try and burst people down or put enough pressure to outdamage their defenses while they try to do the same to you with crowd control added into the mix.
    In PvE the point of the filler busywork is to make the least amount of mistakes possible while the boss throws mechanics at you, and to anyone that says the typical PvE 1-2-3 combo is impossible to ever screwup or calls it braindead is straight up LYING, specially when progging and still learning the fight. When the encounter throws a mechanic that requires spatial awareness or spinning things in your head or whatever, the very simple action of maintaining a 1-2-3 combo becomes a decent challenge when mixed with mechanics and puts pressure into the encounter as a whole. But people love to downplay this, maybe because they are all 100 parsing gods, maybe because they've cleared the fight 200 times? idk
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Mr_Gyactus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Rugiada Brightdawn
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by missTori View Post
    this is the point of confusion im talking about when this topic gets brought up and everyone gets panties in a wad..
    you dont actually have an issue with pvp combos, it's the entirety of scripted pve combat based on a gcd.
    No, I have problem with PVP combo and abilities set, it's boring.
    The fun part of pvp is the adrenaline of a fight vs someone unpredictable.
    The boring part is press the same button over and over.

    16-20 pvp abilities would be optimal, but it's clear that pvp is a niche and SE does not want to lose too much time thinking how to balance 21 jobs with 20 different abilities.
    (2)
    I have 10,000 needles,
    I'm not a weaver,
    and I'm not scared to use them.

  5. #5
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiraZ View Post
    But we're already there for most jobs if you don't include abilities that can't be bound and pure aoe skills that never get used outside dungeons.
    also Bonus challenge, anyone that wants pvp combos in pve. Go hit the pvp dummies for 9~ min and tell me if you actually had fun playing with a pvp kit against a boss that can't react to your actions, can't crowd control, can't run away from you, and doesn't do anything unscripted.



    Not really. Every job I play has more than 30.




    And I'm not talking about gcds. I want less ogcds overall.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Canadane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    7,496
    Character
    King Canadane
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    1-2-3 is objectively more fun than 1-1-1.
    It's objective fact and cannot be disputed.

    Now mind you the act of pressing buttons on their own isn't exactly fun. These thresholds are very very limited.
    (2)

    http://king.canadane.com

  7. #7
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,576
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    1-2-3 is objectively more fun than 1-1-1.
    It's objective fact and cannot be disputed.

    Now mind you the act of pressing buttons on their own isn't exactly fun. These thresholds are very very limited.
    This as an objective fact would imply that "I don't find more fun" would be a non-existent argument. I like pressing 123. I don't like pressing 123 because it is a static button sequence and not actions with inherent interactivity like Bloodspiller, Quietus and Shadowbringer in PvP for example. Or various forms of Mudra inputs for NIN.

    No thought goes into hitting the 3-step combo for most melees or its alterations. It is purely a matter of muscle memorying not pressing 2 or 3 before 1, not pressing 1 again after 1 and making sure to not hit 1 or 2 after hitting 2.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,307
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    1-2-3 is objectively more fun than 1-1-1.
    It's objective fact and cannot be disputed.

    Now mind you the act of pressing buttons on their own isn't exactly fun. These thresholds are very very limited.
    Yes, it is. But at the same time if they want to add more skills, Action Bars start getting full... So instead of using 3 buttons (or 5 in DRGs case) for a combo, they could use 1 button to make more room.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,277
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard View Post
    Yes, it is. But at the same time if they want to add more skills, Action Bars start getting full... So instead of using 3 buttons (or 5 in DRGs case) for a combo, they could use 1 button to make more room.
    Lance Charge can be a low level Dragon Sight, and later upgrade to Dragon Sight
    Dragon Fire Dive can be a low level version of Stardiver, and later upgrades to Stardiver
    Life Surge could probably be removed or its effect baked into an existing gcd

    There are many way to consolidate skills before even touching combos.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Personally, and yes that means imo, don't agree that pressing a button in and of itself is enough to be fun / worthwhile. That is 1 2 3 is not better than 1 1 1, and if anything is more annoying as it takes up space that I would rather use for other abilities.

    I like buttons that register important concepts, but I don't really appreciate buttons that are BLUE DAMAGE RED DAMAGE BLACK DAMAGE BLUE DAMAGE BUT EVEN FLASHIER. You could smash a few of these jobs down to like 12 abilities and I'd be cool with that. 1 2 3 is no better than 1 1 1 when the purpose of both is filler. That's where I like the PvP kits as there is, almost, always a reason a button is different.

    To add onto that a button that is different only in "moron choice or correct choice" is also not that valuable. As we do have some of those, where it's the "you don't know how your job works" if you used it vs you do know. That said I'd also like to say that different playstyle jobs should exist, even if they are just a few deviations from the middle goal, so that you represent a larger audience. In case someone is like a nurgle bloat god that only wants buttons because buttons are pretty (even if they're essentially the same button spread across many....), and then you have smooth matter Steve. Everyone wins lol (unfortunately we don't have specs for jobs as it could be fun to see your job represented in many different styles or roles, but I assume such an idea would mean a lot less jobs released.. so you win some and lose some with that).
    (2)

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