QoL and reducing number of the buttons suggestion

[Shougun]

I like condensed bars, but in context of nifty abilities. Like while I don't mind the roleplay duties I'd not want a job like that lol, however heading towards the PvP kits- I tend to think of those as pretty neat (though the PvP kits tend to also have more thematic feature flavor anyways so that probably impacts why I like them, our normal kits have mechanical cadence flavor, but not so much in features generally). IMO jobs core that fits on two bars is handy. Three bars gets a bit gangly (imo), and is usually easy to imagine it having the same features an interesting choice opportunities (and number of 'abilities' while having two bars rather than three).

[CelestiCer]

You gotta ask yourself, why was Kaiten removed when this option was on the table the whole time?

For the same reason so many good changes aren't happening with other Jobs... " The Dev's are out of Touch ". Consolidation of AOE buttons should have come first, but they didn't. Showcasing how out of touch they are. They turned Samurai into a 1-Button-OGCD-Spamming Job as Hissatsu: Shinten now is 1/5th of my gameplay that adds zero flavor.

Just cause something is easy? is not a good argument to remove it, as what is easy varies per player. Less for the sake of Less is not great unless its given or is replaced with substance... of which Square has zero track record of doing once they remove anything. I have no issues on Samurai, hell they can even add 1 button to the Job. I believe it's called Hissatsu: Kai...

[CaptainLagbeard]

Monk is really the only job you couldn't condense combos into singular buttons for due to how everything on it works with the different Forms and the Blitz system.

While simplifying the gameplay would be an effect of it, it would also help with some of the dreaded button bloat.

Aside from the combos, some other things on various Jobs that could be done for that also exist as well...

BLM, Fire 4 and Blizzard 4 can only be used with Astral Fire and Umbral Ice respectively, so they might as well be under 1 button. Same with Freeze and Flare. And Between The Lines could easily be moved to replace Ley Lines while they're active.

DRG, Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw being only usable with their respective buffs could be just 1 button and not 2. Or just worked into 1 button combo buttons.

SAM, Tsubame-gaeshi could probably be worked into the Iaijutsu button. Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri probably could also just be one button.

[CelestiCer]

...SAM, Tsubame-gaeshi could probably be worked into the Iaijutsu button. Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri probably could also just be one button.

Yay take Samurai as example. Square could have consolidated/fused/merged/upgraded(etc)

. Shoha 1 + Shoha 2
. Ogi Namikiri + Ikishoten
. Guren + Senei
. Shinten + Kyuten ( if you must )
. Iaijutsu + Tsubame ( if you must )

35 Buttons to 30 Buttons. Excl Role/Item/Other buttons i.e Tincture/Feint/Potion/SecondWind/Bloodbath/Limitbreak/Sprint/Legsweep and we Job-wise have 22 at least on Samurai as it is regarded as one of the Jobs with bloat.

Forget theorisation PvE combat system overhaul, in this current format and system... do we want/need it to be less then 22 buttons, Jobwise? I am noticing someone in this thread is a Lv61 Samurai and thinks that it has to many buttons at Lv61... Wondering how much of this is a Design-Issue vs Gameplay-Issue vs Balance-Issue vs Keyboard/Controller-Issue vs Skill-Issue vs I just want everything to be that much more comfier for the sake of making it more comfier.

Another solution is for Square to embed Role skills as tiny buffs imbedded into our Skill kit to remove Bloat

. Certain skills activating shorter anti knockback buff
. Certain Combo Filler grants shorter True North buff
. BloodBath granted upon SecondWind adjust its balance and cooldown

To do away with TrueNorth/Bloodbath/Arms-Length. Not even gone say these are great suggestions to remove some bloat or would improve gameplay cause this makes it dumber in some sense to me? I'm just spit-balling ideas for the sake of giving hypothetical compromises... but all of the above mentioned Square can't even do... and instead? we have players suggesting removal of Combo buttons...

We can't even have Sprint be a button that feels like an OGCD it feels like I have to hammer press it compared to other buttons to even activate it ( is that just me? )

[TheDustyOne]

We can't even have Sprint be a button that feels like an OGCD it feels like I have to hammer press it compared to other buttons to even activate it ( is that just me? )

Sprint is a little weird, potions and Limit Break too, they don't queue like normal skills. I found it better to put Sprint and LB on a 15 line macro to emulate skill queue.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Certain skills activating shorter anti knockback buff

Love your post overall, just wanted to chime in on that one - they literally cannot do that anymore because they designed their fights into a corner.

Dragonsong's Reprise Phase 2 "Sanctity of the Ward" requires use of anti-knockback properties to resolve the mechanic without any target available. Arm's Length & Surecast, with current fight design, literally cannot be consolidated.

[CaptainLagbeard]

. Shoha 1 + Shoha 2
. Guren + Senei
. Shinten + Kyuten ( if you must )

The only way to combine those would be if you just gave the AoE version the potency of the single target version... Which for most bosses wouldn't matter but if there was ever any fight where you had adds or even a second boss, they'd become rather powerful.

The biggest thing for pruning extra buttons is more that you have skills that require a different skill or a buff from a different attack to use... Like for SAM, you can't use Tsubame without Iaijutsu, or Namikiri without Ikosihoten.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The only way to combine those would be if you just gave the AoE version the potency of the single target version... Which for most bosses wouldn't matter but if there was ever any fight where you had adds or even a second boss, they'd become rather powerful.

The biggest thing for pruning extra buttons is more that you have skills that require a different skill or a buff from a different attack to use... Like for SAM, you can't use Tsubame without Iaijutsu, or Namikiri without Ikosihoten.

Or, since at least Heavensward, give the single target version the AOE effect with reduced potency. Hissatsu: Guren already has the "and 25% less for all remaining enemies" clause for AOEing (500 -> 375 potency), an upgrade to Hissatsu: Senei could be justified turning the line AOE into a frontal cone and reducing the potency by -50% for all further targets (400 potency, close to the original 375 AOE potency from Guren).

[Gordita]

Yay take Samurai as example. Square could have consolidated/fused/merged/upgraded(etc)

. Shoha 1 + Shoha 2
. Ogi Namikiri + Ikishoten
. Guren + Senei
. Shinten + Kyuten ( if you must )
. Iaijutsu + Tsubame ( if you must )

35 Buttons to 30 Buttons. Excl Role/Item/Other buttons i.e Tincture/Feint/Potion/SecondWind/Bloodbath/Limitbreak/Sprint/Legsweep and we Job-wise have 22 at least on Samurai as it is regarded as one of the Jobs with bloat.

Forget theorisation PvE combat system overhaul, in this current format and system... do we want/need it to be less then 22 buttons, Jobwise? I am noticing someone in this thread is a Lv61 Samurai and thinks that it has to many buttons at Lv61... Wondering how much of this is a Design-Issue vs Gameplay-Issue vs Balance-Issue vs Keyboard/Controller-Issue vs Skill-Issue vs I just want everything to be that much more comfier for the sake of making it more comfier.

Another solution is for Square to embed Role skills as tiny buffs imbedded into our Skill kit to remove Bloat

. Certain skills activating shorter anti knockback buff
. Certain Combo Filler grants shorter True North buff
. BloodBath granted upon SecondWind adjust its balance and cooldown

To do away with TrueNorth/Bloodbath/Arms-Length. Not even gone say these are great suggestions to remove some bloat or would improve gameplay cause this makes it dumber in some sense to me? I'm just spit-balling ideas for the sake of giving hypothetical compromises... but all of the above mentioned Square can't even do... and instead? we have players suggesting removal of Combo buttons...

We can't even have Sprint be a button that feels like an OGCD it feels like I have to hammer press it compared to other buttons to even activate it ( is that just me? )

8/10 times when I try to activate sprint in combat it just acknowledged the button press but doesn't execute the action and kills me or makes me look stupid, and I find that very offensive that the game just malfunctions and nobody bats an eye or fixes it

[Somnolence]

Yay take Samurai as example.

I had a system of organizing abilities where all of them were neatly grouped and placed in appropriate bars/keybinds so it was consistent and logical for every job, allowing me to easily switch and play any of them.
Guess which job forced me to violate this...

Another solution is for Square to embed Role skills as tiny buffs imbedded into our Skill kit to remove Bloat

In TOP we already were reaching buff limit.