QoL and reducing number of the buttons suggestion

[Merrigan]

Summary of the thread is like a group surrounding an unseasoned Chicken, debating on how to cook it at maximum comfiness while making it optimally bland...

- Let's boil it in water! / Great idea!
- Seasoning & Frying sounds like effort
- Lets microwave it! Requires 1 button "



I am a Samurai player only, I did disagree with it yes

I play Sam a lot (my "main" on my real char), and same. But to second other posts, I get the impression that many people just don't have the right reflexes to bind the keys. Between ctrl, shift, alt potentially (even if I find it rather impractical, personally), mouse buttons, the keys that are accessible (French keyboard here, so e, s, f, t, r, w etc etc), and of course the classic 1-2-3 (etc)... The possibilities are endless.

In fact, the problem is more the screen clutter than the blinds themselves.

[KageTokage]

I really wish XIV had opted for the more typical approach of having less buttons you use more often as opposed to making almost every ability learned in the post 60 stretch cooldowns you only use once every 30 seconds to two minutes.

[kaynide]

Possibly controversial, but abilities that chain into one single other ability shouldn’t need an entirely new button to push.

Example, (for simplicity) Samurai’s core rotation:

1 > 2 > 3
1 > 4 > 5
1 > 6

Should just be

1 > 2 > 2
1 > 3 > 3
1 > 4

Unfortunately people may complain that a lot of jobs would just become 1>1>1, but facts are they already are…you are just dressing them up and adding unnecessary bloat to the hot bar.

Edit: just to add, I understand by endgame the core above is altered by many gimmicks. That would be my second point: by the time you hit endgame your focus should be on timing/chaining these gimmicks and not focused on what should be a very mundane rotation.

[strawberrycake]

Possibly controversial, but abilities that chain into one single other ability shouldn’t need an entirely new button to push.

Example, (for simplicity) Samurai’s core rotation:

1 > 2 > 3
1 > 4 > 5
1 > 6

Should just be

1 > 2 > 2
1 > 3 > 3
1 > 4

Unfortunately people may complain that a lot of jobs would just become 1>1>1, but facts are they already are…you are just dressing them up and adding unnecessary bloat to the hot bar.

Edit: just to add, I understand by endgame the core above is altered by many gimmicks. That would be my second point: by the time you hit endgame your focus should be on timing/chaining these gimmicks and not focused on what should be a very mundane rotation.

I feel like a lot of people are still forgetting about what feels good to do, physically and why it should be done away with, but why more keyboard/skill layouts should be addded over just getting rid of something. The game becoming more mundane doesnt mean we should make keybind and action bars mundane as well.

[kaynide]

I feel like a lot of people are still forgetting about what feels good to do, physically and why it should be done away with, but why more keyboard/skill layouts should be addded over just getting rid of something. The game becoming more mundane doesnt mean we should make keybind and action bars mundane as well.

Having to push the same button 3 times is not any less mundane than pushing 3 different buttons if the button pushed has no extra meaning.
Having stuff on your bar for the sake of having stuff on your bar is not exciting gameplay design.

I’ll say this- I play Monster Hunter, Charge Blade (pretty complex/technical weapon comparatively). The amount of actions and movements I can do packed into a few buttons makes it feel very fun to play. Yes, it’s an action game. Yes, different, but using a controller, why do I need to press 3 completely different buttons to do what is essentially Sword>Sword>Sword.

It would be completely different if there were choices after each button press. For most jobs, there are not.

Monk is one of the only ones that comes to mind that each ability has meaning in its placement for stances, position of attack and buff/debuffs from abilities. And in that case, that should be the job’s gimmick.

[strawberrycake]

Having to push the same button 3 times is not any less mundane than pushing 3 different buttons if the button pushed has no extra meaning.
Having stuff on your bar for the sake of having stuff on your bar is not exciting gameplay design.

I’ll say this- I play Monster Hunter, Charge Blade (pretty complex/technical weapon comparatively). The amount of actions and movements I can do packed into a few buttons makes it feel very fun to play. Yes, it’s an action game. Yes, different, but using a controller, why do I need to press 3 completely different buttons to do what is essentially Sword>Sword>Sword.

It would be completely different if there were choices after each button press. For most jobs, there are not.

Monk is one of the only ones that comes to mind that each ability has meaning in its placement for stances, position of attack and buff/debuffs from abilities. And in that case, that should be the job’s gimmick.

You're comparing an action game where mashing the same button for a combo across a massively diverse collection of weapons makes sense, a better comparison would be fighting games where each character is the job and each one has a unique set of combos that can be strung together. But for the sake of proving my point, Make Consolidated Combo Buttons an opt in feature, focing this for everyone would just lead to most people not being happy.

[kaynide]

You're comparing an action game where mashing the same button for a combo across a massively diverse collection of weapons makes sense, a better comparison would be fighting games where each character is the job and each one has a unique set of combos that can be strung together. But for the sake of proving my point, Make Consolidated Combo Buttons an opt in feature, focing this for everyone would just lead to most people not being happy.

Fighting games are a great example for this, actually:

Compare a game like Mortal Kombat to Smash Bros.

Smash Bros, all characters play the same (button-press-wise), but HOW you actually play them has huge variety and requires an understanding of when to use what ability.

Mortal Kombat, while also requiring knowledge of what does what, also requires convoluted button presses/sequences unique to each character.

Both kinds of games appeal to different people. Trying to remember if one of my basic moves is "down forward punch" or "forward forward punch" on this particular character is not fun game play to me.
Again, doesn't mean people who LIKE the complextiy are wrong, or the people who like 1-2-3 for the sake of 1-2-3 are wrong- it's just not what I want given the option.

[ZiraZ]

Possibly controversial, but abilities that chain into one single other ability shouldn’t need an entirely new button to push.

Example, (for simplicity) Samurai’s core rotation:

1 > 2 > 3
1 > 4 > 5
1 > 6

Should just be

1 > 2 > 2
1 > 3 > 3
1 > 4

Unfortunately people may complain that a lot of jobs would just become 1>1>1, but facts are they already are…you are just dressing them up and adding unnecessary bloat to the hot bar.

Edit: just to add, I understand by endgame the core above is altered by many gimmicks. That would be my second point: by the time you hit endgame your focus should be on timing/chaining these gimmicks and not focused on what should be a very mundane rotation.

We should also make Shinten auto cast whenever you have available good boy samurai points, it's just bloat anyways, as demonstrated by Kaiten removal that nobody liked or ever complained about anyways.
And the stickers too, dumb stupid stickers, they should all be the same symbol and color, let the SAM pick his favorite combo animation to spam, I'm just here to spam Gekko 300 times per fight.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

We should also make Shinten auto cast whenever you have available good boy samurai points, it's just bloat anyways, as demonstrated by Kaiten removal that nobody liked or ever complained about anyways.
And the stickers too, dumb stupid stickers, they should all be the same symbol and color, let the SAM pick his favorite combo animation to spam, I'm just here to spam Gekko 300 times per fight.

Turning 6 Single Target and 3 AOE weaponskills into 5 combo buttons which you still have to use the same amount of times as the combo has steps to complete them is not the same as turning Shinten into a Raid Shadow Legends autobattler.

You are not going to use Gekko 300 times nor will your 8 button input before Midare Setsugekka be reduced to 1 Hotkey. You are simply moving your Gekko combo from 123 to 111, Kasha combo is 222, Yukikaze combo is 33, Mangetsu combo is 44, Oka combo is 55. The weaponskills Hakaze, Jinpu, Shifu and Fuga/Fuko are not going away, they are simply condensed.

I suggest looking up how PvP combos worked when we had multiple combo branches rather than having an uneducated meltdown over a clear misunderstanding.

[kaynide]

Turning 6 Single Target and 3 AOE weaponskills into 5 combo buttons which you still have to use the same amount of times as the combo has steps to complete them is not the same as turning Shinten into a Raid Shadow Legends autobattler.

You are not going to use Gekko 300 times nor will your 8 button input before Midare Setsugekka be reduced to 1 Hotkey. You are simply moving your Gekko combo from 123 to 111, Kasha combo is 222, Yukikaze combo is 33, Mangetsu combo is 44, Oka combo is 55. The weaponskills Hakaze, Jinpu, Shifu and Fuga/Fuko are not going away, they are simply condensed.

I suggest looking up how PvP combos worked when we had multiple combo branches rather than having an uneducated meltdown over a clear misunderstanding.

To be fair I don’t think they read my post to begin with. Just a “make SAM more streamlined” made them PTSD about losing Kaiten, or something.