Please, can we get....!!!!

[Shougun]

I think the S ranks should become event bosses (using event specifically to refer to GW2) - so moving them into FATEs sounds alright. Upgrade the FATE system to include interesting spawn rules, and other things while they're at it. Like overall improve the dynamic element of FATEs (not just S), so they can adjust better IN the moment rather than only after. S rank obviously would have to adjust slower so it doesn't yoyo.

Would love to see S ranks and our.. Super S ranks (?- the ones with tokens lol) to get spiced up, like GW2 events (Dragonstorm, any of them really - etc). It was sad our Thanalan and South Shroud FATE that had many steps and changed things about the area (ARR) was the most creative they really got with the system. Good area for budding developers to test their design fingers too, particularly if it gets a lot of tools into the system (like GW2's activities or WoW's custom system they use for things like making you play tank wars in Darkmoon Faire), "I want you to make 10 interesting FATEs with our new system". If it sucks it's not great but didn't really destroy much lol.

More on point, besides having better dynamic combat / phases (meaning things would likely last longer), there can be a variety of means to ensure notice. Weather changing 5 to 15 minutes prior to an event, or a series of major FATEs appearing generating notice, etc (the weather is one that is sort of already used). Some solutions could literally be a timer but it would be because it also makes sense, like if somehow a King Behemoth was being held down by machina tethers, which DoH / DoL were trying to enhance, and you could see their health drop over time. Like a base timer, event time for DoH / DoL, and a slight increase in timer based on interest- by slight I mean if DoH/DoL did well it'd be like an extra 2 minutes, which all could have been precipitated by an earlier event like meteors crashing down throughout the zone with special weather effect, meteors spawned mini-A rank like FATEs that rewarded tomes, such that any person on the server who wanted to know about knew about it and is there.

Due to their far better persitence and notice, with perhaps special hunt tracking NPCs to help narrow down windows (like a GW2 event tracker 'almost'), can create a larger open world content concept that scales better.



On the FATE scaling mechanic though.. I would like it not all FATEs then just the unique 'event' fates did some sort of limit, clamp, and ceiling math to your rotation rather than total level sync, I don't enjoy losing my kit lol. Stat scaling is fine, and might be part of what helps it better dynamic (like your damage is scaled down fairly hard when the system thinks a lot of people will join in, and adjusts up or down if it needs to, meanwhile your defense doesn't get hit as hard as quickly because it allows the system a little bit more time to intelligently place where that fight needs to be to be fun / reasonable).

[Thurmnmurmn]

But no one has the right to decide anything for anyone. When the spawner decides to wait 30 minutes then everyone attacking after less than that would be open to get reported? Then you may say 30 minutes is too much and then suddenly you want to decide what time is appropriate and then the spawner wouldn't be the one anymore who decides? You can't tell players when they can or can't attack a monster in the open world.

Obviously some guidelines would need to be put in place yes. On primal per example, we mainly go by a 5 minute timer but the spawner can pull sooner if he chooses.
If anyone should have the right to it, it's the one(s) who spawned it.

Funny enough there are some times where you can't just do what you want. Resetting a minion for spawning SS marks per example. That's actionable as it's griefing others.
And then there's the disruptive behavior one too that's random from one situation to another (all depending on the gm).

[KageTokage]

I'd be fine with the way hunts worked currently if not for the fact that the proliferation of third party tools that auto-locate/relay S ranks has made it so you're basically required to rely on such to have a fair chance at getting to them.

If people have to spend several minutes spawning the hunt marks, then those who only show up to kill it can afford to chill for a couple minutes so I would be totally down with the hunts being untargetable for a brief period after they spawn.

It's fundamentally not fun for nigh every S rank to be a mad scramble to get to it before dies due to how readily accessible the locations of their spawns are nowdays and it was already bad enough before crossworld/realm was a thing.

[Thurmnmurmn]

snip

One idea that could maybe work would be something like putting a 5 min invuln on the S ranks but also giving a buff to all those who spawned. The buff could give the spawners the ability to attack and void the invuln before it's timer runs out if they wish.

As for centurio vs faloop. Having used both systems, faloop is far superior for getting to more marks.
The big difference between the two is faloop is entirely community driven and the community cross references with centurio in case someone out of the community spawned it.
Centurio works off of a bot that's hooked up to the mod sonar. So it only picks up marks that are pinged by its mod users. And I can tell you, the faloop community is wayyyyyy bigger than the sonar community.
And that's also not counting the fact that centurio can also hold marks from going public the same way faloop does.

When I was heavily into spawning I would keep track of centurio on top of faloop and I can 100% confirm (at least for primal) that you can get to far more marks via faloop and it doesn't break TOS with mods.

[Jojoya]

One idea that could maybe work would be something like putting a 5 min invuln on the S ranks but also giving a buff to all those who spawned. The buff could give the spawners the ability to attack and void the invuln before it's timer runs out if they wish.

As for centurio vs faloop. Having used both systems, faloop is far superior for getting to more marks.
The big difference between the two is faloop is entirely community driven and the community cross references with centurio in case someone out of the community spawned it.
Centurio works off of a bot that's hooked up to the mod sonar. So it only picks up marks that are pinged by its mod users. And I can tell you, the faloop community is wayyyyyy bigger than the sonar community.
And that's also not counting the fact that centurio can also hold marks from going public the same way faloop does.

When I was heavily into spawning I would keep track of centurio on top of faloop and I can 100% confirm (at least for primal) that you can get to far more marks via faloop and it doesn't break TOS with mods.

The idea to use a buff to remove the invuln sounds good. The buff could probably be given to everyone in the zone at the instant the S rank is spawned, which would cut down the need to program conditions to determine who is a spawner and should get it. Someone who was randomly in the zone at the right time is rarely going to show up at the S rank let alone cause problems. The early pullers are usually at another S rank or are Aetheryte camping one of the 3 main cities when a spawn happens.

Better if I don't get deep into Faloop issues. All I'll say is that it is a third party tool that is intentionally designed (according to Moo's discussions with me in the past) to delay relays to its general community. We've got very different perspectives about whether a controlled hierarchy is appropriate for the Hunt, especially when said hierarchy is created by a self-selected set of players and not the developers. I don't believe it is. Moo disagrees.

Centurio has the ability to delay relays but doesn't. It was tried at one point and abandoned when it was realized the delay was making the problems it was intended to solve worse for the community, not better. As soon as a spawn hits the mod, it's on Centurio. If there's a delay it's because no mod user was in the zone at the time of the spawn.

Centurio does still have more members than Faloop but your experience is going to vary based on what data center you're playing on. Not every data center is Faloop centric the way Primal is but then Primal has been using Faloop much longer than the other NA data centers (I think longer than the EU data centers as well).

On the "it's not a mod that breaks ToS" comment, all I can do is ask if you know where the person behind that one button press that supposedly makes the difference is getting their information from. A lot of Faloop members, including spawners, don't practice what they preach. It's easy to figure out when player search shows only the two of you in the zone at the moment you spawn something yet Centurio gets the instant ping and you don't have the mod. It would be nice if those players dropped the fake moral superiority. Most of us don't care they're using the mod. We just want the spawn to be shared with the community as fast as possible so the Aetheryte campers and early pullers have less of an edge.

[Luluya]

The idea to use a buff to remove the invuln sounds good. The buff could probably be given to everyone in the zone at the instant the S rank is spawned, which would cut down the need to program conditions to determine who is a spawner and should get it. Someone who was randomly in the zone at the right time is rarely going to show up at the S rank let alone cause problems. The early pullers are usually at another S rank or are Aetheryte camping one of the 3 main cities when a spawn happens.

Better if I don't get deep into Faloop issues. All I'll say is that it is a third party tool that is intentionally designed (according to Moo's discussions with me in the past) to delay relays to its general community. We've got very different perspectives about whether a controlled hierarchy is appropriate for the Hunt, especially when said hierarchy is created by a self-selected set of players and not the developers. I don't believe it is. Moo disagrees.

Centurio has the ability to delay relays but doesn't. It was tried at one point and abandoned when it was realized the delay was making the problems it was intended to solve worse for the community, not better. As soon as a spawn hits the mod, it's on Centurio. If there's a delay it's because no mod user was in the zone at the time of the spawn.

Centurio does still have more members than Faloop but your experience is going to vary based on what data center you're playing on. Not every data center is Faloop centric the way Primal is but then Primal has been using Faloop much longer than the other NA data centers (I think longer than the EU data centers as well).

On the "it's not a mod that breaks ToS" comment, all I can do is ask if you know where the person behind that one button press that supposedly makes the difference is getting their information from. A lot of Faloop members, including spawners, don't practice what they preach. It's easy to figure out when player search shows only the two of you in the zone at the moment you spawn something yet Centurio gets the instant ping and you don't have the mod. It would be nice if those players dropped the fake moral superiority. Most of us don't care they're using the mod. We just want the spawn to be shared with the community as fast as possible so the Aetheryte campers and early pullers have less of an edge.

As someone who regularly spawns S ranks and is in both discords as well as hunt linkshells/CWLS on Dynamis, its not hard to see that Centurio has the blatant cheating as often when the micro-second I spawn a node the discord bot will post a message with exactly where it is, even if its in a remote area of the map.

I'm basically only in Centurio at this point just to keep up as their bot pings it and then people rush to it, even when there are already S ranks up and we're waiting to relay until after, so that more people get a chance.

[Jojoya]

The issue is The Hunt itself, and the developers not taking action to address the content based on how players are interacting with it... completely optimizing the fun out of the activity. They continually fall back on the excuse of "the content was not designed for 300 ppl", but hey, that's how the community has been doing it now for nearly 3 expansions... so maybe that needs to be considered in the design process going forward.

Why even give Hunts mechanics anymore? a Training Dummy might as well spawn and players just have to click on it once for full rewards and leave.

IMO, The Hunt needs to be completely reworked
milestones for the Mount Achievements should be lowered to sift out ppl only doing the Hunt for them faster
overall rewards also need to be nerfed to for the amount of effort each individual player puts into trains, materia is so easy to get via spirit bonding and as dungeon drops... clusters honestly should probably just be removed along with Tomes, make it Seals/Nuts only and have that be it's own exclusive economy

Every Hunt, including the older hunts, should be given a handful of rare drops (a mixture of Non-tradable/and things that can be sold on Market), similar to Eureka/Bozja/Zadnor mobs with incredibly low drop rates so that there is an additional reason for SOMEONE to fight them. Whether it be a cosmetic, a furnishing, a Triple Triad card... it'll brainworm somebody and give them an incentive to track down and fight specific Hunts. and things 'anticipated' to be more desirable should be given to older hunts as a way to repopulate those zones with higher level players...

BUT they'll only be showing up when Windows are open... give Hunts interactivity with FATEs in each Zone. Keep the long windows, but make it to where each FATE completed in the zone knocks off a random amount of time from the spawn window. So you create a loop of Players doing FATEs for a bit, checking spawn conditions, back to FATEs, etc.

If it's not happening on JP, it doesn't happen as far as SE is concerned.

I haven't seen any EN speaking players on the JP worlds complaining about 300+ S ranks and trains so it clearly doesn't happen as far as SE is concerned.

Adding in rare drops to S ranks wouldn't change anything other than more early pullers. Most S ranks are getting spawned close to their release time.

Adding in rare drops to A ranks might change things for a short period of time but then it would go back to trains because more would have a chance at the rare drop instead of having to pay marketboard prices to get it. If you want to break up trains, the best thing to do is change the respawn window. A 2 hour window makes trains way too convenient. A 6 hour window would leave everyone scrambling.

As someone who regularly spawns S ranks and is in both discords as well as hunt linkshells/CWLS on Dynamis, its not hard to see that Centurio has the blatant cheating as often when the micro-second I spawn a node the discord bot will post a message with exactly where it is, even if its in a remote area of the map.

I'm basically only in Centurio at this point just to keep up as their bot pings it and then people rush to it, even when there are already S ranks up and we're waiting to relay until after, so that more people get a chance.

I'm sorry but Faloop has them just as much as Centurio. Like I said the hypocrisy was laughable when I encountered it as we were trying to initially organize the community on Dynamis when the data center opened and the zones were usually empty when we spawned because the majority of players were leveling alts from level 1. They avoid discussing their Sonar use in Faloop channels because they don't want to be kicked from the app but it's obvious they're there and they're hoping that other mod users keep their own use from being discovered.

What's even funnier is all the Faloop users that are very open about their use of other mods. They just don't mention this one single hunt-related mod. Against ToS is against ToS. Why complain about one mod when you're openly using others?

Would you prefer to remain ignorant of S ranks spawned by those not part of Faloop or approved for the privilege of reporting on Faloop? I know when we were setting things up on Dynamis, it was decided that we'd give everyone who asked the permissions to report on Faloop but I don't know if it's still that way after last summer's implosion or if the elitists who detested everyone getting access finally gained control and put a stop to it.

All Centurio has done is taken away the advantage a few had kept to themselves by relaying to all when the spawn is picked up by the mod.

You don't get rid of cheaters by pretending they don't exist. They don't care what you think or believe. You get rid of the advantage cheaters have by leveling the playing field and giving everyone else the same advantages.

If you're thinking that it should be up to the Faloop inner circle to set the rules for the Hunt, sorry. Square Enix hasn't given Faloop the authority to control the game play available to all FFXIV players. If Faloop members want to voluntarily give up their rights to make their own choices about game play and leave it in the hands of those vetted by the Faloop inner circle, that's their personal choice. They don't have the right to make that choice for others. Square Enix has been very blunt that the majority doesn't overrule the minority when it comes to game play and the rules that SE has set. Most of us were cooperating and getting along quite well before Faloop came along. We can continue to do so without Faloop. All Faloop did was bring a lot more drama into the Hunt by trying to control other players it had no right to control.

[KageTokage]

The SS rank in particular is probably the biggest example of how actively participating in spawning something is strictly detrimental to you because on a normal day 80-90% of the players who were around for the initial S rank are just going to be camping at the spawn point for the follow-up instead of helping to kill the minions, and there is a realistic chance of not getting a hit in if people decide to pull the thing the instant it spawns at prime time.

[ZiraZ]

A and S/SS ranks should at least be allowed to do their main "mechanic" loop once before they can die, I'll take slower trains if I can at least have some fun and see the chaos, really boring just nuking everything in 30 seconds, I still don't even know the mechanics of some endwalker A ranks.
Just pause their hp at 50% until they finish their main mechanic.
This will also allow for for more time for people to arrive and tag.
And one final request, make all hunt boss mechanics do %hp based damage so tanks can actually die.

[Rowde]

The issue is The Hunt itself, and the developers not taking action to address the content based on how players are interacting with it... completely optimizing the fun out of the activity. They continually fall back on the excuse of "the content was not designed for 300 ppl", but hey, that's how the community has been doing it now for nearly 3 expansions... so maybe that needs to be considered in the design process going forward.

Why even give Hunts mechanics anymore? a Training Dummy might as well spawn and players just have to click on it once for full rewards and leave.

IMO, The Hunt needs to be completely reworked
milestones for the Mount Achievements should be lowered to sift out ppl only doing the Hunt for them faster
overall rewards also need to be nerfed to for the amount of effort each individual player puts into trains, materia is so easy to get via spirit bonding and as dungeon drops... clusters honestly should probably just be removed along with Tomes, make it Seals/Nuts only and have that be it's own exclusive economy

Every Hunt, including the older hunts, should be given a handful of rare drops (a mixture of Non-tradable/and things that can be sold on Market), similar to Eureka/Bozja/Zadnor mobs with incredibly low drop rates so that there is an additional reason for SOMEONE to fight them. Whether it be a cosmetic, a furnishing, a Triple Triad card... it'll brainworm somebody and give them an incentive to track down and fight specific Hunts. and things 'anticipated' to be more desirable should be given to older hunts as a way to repopulate those zones with higher level players...

BUT they'll only be showing up when Windows are open... give Hunts interactivity with FATEs in each Zone. Keep the long windows, but make it to where each FATE completed in the zone knocks off a random amount of time from the spawn window. So you create a loop of Players doing FATEs for a bit, checking spawn conditions, back to FATEs, etc.