Please, can we get....!!!!

[ShariusTC]

I fought with other guilds in the late 90s in EverQuest for contested raid targets, so no, not new to MMOs or this idea of fighting for a target. And it doesn't matter what the community has decided they want to do. None of it is sanctioned by SE itself and they're very unlikely to put anything in the game to facilitate a community-created system like this. They don't get into these disputes. Open world targets are open world targets and don't belong to anyone under SE's rules, whether they spawned them or not.

yeah, sure, jan, claimed to be part of raid guild since 90s, don't understand that gamer will grind the heck out of everything in any game, lmao

[Thurmnmurmn]

This has been suggested hundreds of thousands of times over the years. This exact suggestion.

It wouldn't necessarily be useful though and here is why. When you spawn an S rank, for example by killing all 300 enemies in Mare Lamentorum, you have to find and locate the S rank. This means you fly around the area, look for it and travel to it. This can take a few minutes. Then you relay the information into linkshells. It takes about 2 minutes for people to arrive. By then, the 5 minutes of invulnerability is up.

Some spawners would deliberately spawn it and wait the 5 minutes before relaying, so that the invulnerability timer expires before people start server jumping, making it irrelevant.

There is really no reason for it on Forgiven Rebellion or Ker. The minion spawns act as advance notice it will spawn.

So this isn't quite accurate. The majority of the s ranks are mapped before they spawn so we already know exactly where they spawn. No need to find where they spawn (mostly for later expansion ones).

The main issue with putting an invul timer on s ranks is that not all s ranks are equal. A whole lot of players will insta pull or bail on a arr/hw/sb a rank so they can make it to a shb or ew one (due to the 1k achievements).
And the ones who would need an a invuln timer the most would be those in question due to how fast they die. But it would essentially force people to bail (including the spawner) if they wanna make the higher priority marks instead.

[Jeeqbit]

So this isn't quite accurate. The majority of the s ranks are mapped before they spawn so we already know exactly where they spawn. No need to find where they spawn (mostly for later expansion ones).

True due to the lack of spawn points in later expansions. But you still need to fly to it regardless in many cases.

"never intende for server hopping hunt train"?

dude, are you new for MMO? they make server hopping a thing, then make something rare to spawn, give them some nice drop even an archivement with more awesome reward that need to kill thousand of these things, then someone sudden said probly player won't jumping server to farm the shit out of it

Your order isn't entirely right there. They made hunts, as a concept, before they made World Visit and it was never adjusted.

However, you are correct that SE intended people to world visit for hunts, because some worlds were underpopulated and allowing people to visit would mean more people to help fight hunts and FATEs during the morning hours.

They even said in response to concerns about it that at first it'll be chaotic, but it'll settle down and everyone will get used to it after a while, which is what happened.

[ShariusTC]

True due to the lack of spawn points in later expansions. But you still need to fly to it regardless in many cases.

Your order isn't entirely right there. They made hunts, as a concept, before they made World Visit and it was never adjusted.

However, you are correct that SE intended people to world visit for hunts, because some worlds were underpopulated and allowing people to visit would mean more people to help fight hunts and FATEs during the morning hours.

They even said in response to concerns about it that at first it'll be chaotic, but it'll settle down and everyone will get used to it after a while, which is what happened.

they made hunt before server hopping, yes, then making server hopping when people already find a loop hole for instance changing in eureka long time before that, they need to consider about that possible to make a change for hunt, that how MMO work, it's not like rocket science where they need to go out of the way to change it, just simple a patch that enable invulnerable buff for few minute which already ingame

even offline game nowaday make change from patch to patch to fit with it own community, you tell me MMO should not do it?

[Thurmnmurmn]

I like how it's done ATM for most servers that it's the spawner who decides the pull time.
One thing that would be nice from SEs side of things would be to add in the TOS the option to action early pullers. But that's a big stretch to hope for.

[ACE135]

I like how it's done ATM for most servers that it's the spawner who decides the pull time.
One thing that would be nice from SEs side of things would be to add in the TOS the option to action early pullers. But that's a big stretch to hope for.

But there is no early pull. What is early to some may be late to others. No one gets to decide for other players when or when not to engage in open world content.

[Thurmnmurmn]

But there is no early pull. What is early to some may be late to others. No one gets to decide for other players when or when not to engage in open world content.

When I say early pull it's in relation to what the spawner decides. I'm aware that there's nothing enforcing that in the TOS. That's what I'm requesting for.

[ACE135]

When I say early pull it's in relation to what the spawner decides. I'm aware that there's nothing enforcing that in the TOS. That's what I'm requesting for.

But no one has the right to decide anything for anyone. When the spawner decides to wait 30 minutes then everyone attacking after less than that would be open to get reported? Then you may say 30 minutes is too much and then suddenly you want to decide what time is appropriate and then the spawner wouldn't be the one anymore who decides? You can't tell players when they can or can't attack a monster in the open world.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Btw here's some advice for anyone looking to get a potential head start on getting to the S ranks in time.
The best thing would be to get involved into spawning and trying to get in touch with a faloop mod for your server (faloop is a site most players use to track spawns). Depending on the server, you may be able to get faloop permissions right away or may need to prove yourself as a spawner before you do. Once you have perms, you can potentially see spawns before they go public. They have an early access system where only spawners can see it first (mainly for when there's multiple spawns at the same time and we don't wanna release them all at the same time).

[Jojoya]

When I say early pull it's in relation to what the spawner decides. I'm aware that there's nothing enforcing that in the TOS. That's what I'm requesting for.

The unfortunate problem is that there is no such thing as "spawner's rights" recognized by the game. The Hunt was designed to be kill on sight, regardless of who put in the effort for the spawn, and SE has shown no sign that they want to make it otherwise.

Even if the change was made, how does the game determine what player gets the spawn credit? It takes 10 players to spawn Narrow-Rift. While each data center has its crazy dedicated hunters doing kill counts solo, you're going to have at least 2-3 working together most of the time. If there are a half dozen players showing up to whack a node for a spawn, what happens if the game decides the spawner was a player who hit the node for other reasons then immediately left the zone? If someone spends their afternoon camping Dravanian Forelands doing Cerf's Up solo just to have another player show up during the 5th one and get the killing blow on the mob that completes the FATE, should the game give the spawn credit to the player who had been there the last 3 hours or to the player that showed up 2 minutes ago?

The player community has taken content that was pretty simple - kill on sight - and turned it into a complex mess arguing over things like who should get spawn credit, who gets to pull, how long they should have to wait before pulling, etc.

Considering the entitlement coming from a significant chunk of the community that does absolutely nothing to help with the spawning, is it any wonder some are getting fed up and trying to move the content back to what SE originally intended for it to be?

"never intende for server hopping hunt train"?

dude, are you new for MMO? they make server hopping a thing, then make something rare to spawn, give them some nice drop even an archivement with more awesome reward that need to kill thousand of these things, then someone sudden said probly player won't jumping server to farm the shit out of it, lmao

in eureka people already jump from instance to instance to farm the heck out of fate that drop equipment, way before server and DC travel is a thing

Despite your forum date, you're clearly new to the game not to mention Hunts if you think that Hunts were intended for server hopping. Did you buy that account?

There was no world visit until a few months before Shadowbringers. The Hunt wasn't intended for server hopping because there was no way to server hop. Eureka is instanced, not open world like the Hunt is.

That players are taking advantage of the server hopping to cap tomestones via trains or get their mount achievements faster is no surprise but that does not mean the Hunt was designed for it. There's been nothing about the Hunt changed because players can use world visit now. The long term achievements are still intended to be long term achievements and not something players are supposed to complete in 2 months.

Btw here's some advice for anyone looking to get a potential head start on getting to the S ranks in time.
The best thing would be to get involved into spawning and trying to get in touch with a faloop mod for your server (faloop is a site most players use to track spawns). Depending on the server, you may be able to get faloop permissions right away or may need to prove yourself as a spawner before you do. Once you have perms, you can potentially see spawns before they go public. They have an early access system where only spawners can see it first (mainly for when there's multiple spawns at the same time and we don't wanna release them all at the same time).

The best thing is to avoid Faloop altogether and keep an eye on Centurio.

Faloop's early access system for the privileged few does more to benefit the early pullers than benefit the general community. I've seen "oh no, we forgot public release" happen far too many times.

You know the early pullers are out there and they're getting their information through other means faster than you can communicate the spawn through Faloop. Yet you still use delayed release for the "public" relays. If your complaint is the early pullers keeping others in the community from getting there, in what universe does it make sense to be delaying your own relays to the community you recruited to rely on your third party tool? Are you trying to feed early pullers satisfaction from keeping others from arriving in time?

yeah, sure, jan, claimed to be part of raid guild since 90s, don't understand that gamer will grind the heck out of everything in any game, lmao

Sure, there are some players that do but the majority don't. They don't have that sort of time available to dedicate to a single game.

Designing a game around how the outliers play it instead of designing it with average players in mind is a sure fire way to make a bad game.

I'd be fine with the way hunts worked currently if not for the fact that the proliferation of third party tools that auto-locate/relay S ranks has made it so you're basically required to rely on such to have a fair chance at getting to them.

If people have to spend several minutes spawning the hunt marks, then those who only show up to kill it can afford to chill for a couple minutes so I would be totally down with the hunts being untargetable for a brief period after they spawn.

It's fundamentally not fun for nigh every S rank to be a mad scramble to get to it before dies due to how readily accessible the locations of their spawns are nowdays and it was already bad enough before crossworld/realm was a thing.

Getting flying in ARR has helped a lot with the location problem. Fly up to the ceiling and as long as the weather is fairly clear, you've got a good chance of spotting where it is (or at least eliminating the open spots as places to check). For the other zones, we've got the Faloop and Bear tools to use for mapping. Some of the HW zones may not end up fully mapped but enough spawn points are eliminated to make a spawn quick to locate most of the time (Sea of Clouds being the major pain).

The mindset that we should be able to get to every S rank shouldn't be adopted or encouraged. This isn't Stormblood when we were limited only to what S ranks could spawn on our home worlds. Back then, there might be 60 spawns a week total. With world visit, we have over 600 spawns a week per data center. That's a huge increase in access.

People need to learn not to get upset over a missed S rank. Is it annoying when you get there just as it dies? Sure, it's happened to all of us. But there will be more to spawn and kill.