Please, can we get....!!!!

[SannaR]

yeah, sure, jan, claimed to be part of raid guild since 90s, don't understand that gamer will grind the heck out of everything in any game, lmao

That's not what they said at all. They just stated how the devs themselves see hunts and what their stances on hunts are. Until the devs change how they see and treat hunt marks there is no such thing as an early puller. That any type of social norms or hunting etiquette or whatever you want to call them as the devs see it is something the players have imposed on themselves. That any early pulling, reporting then quick pulling or not reporting at all isn't a thing that exists in the devs eyes. As they're meant to be a first come first serve basis according to the devs. Who have taken this stance for years no matter how often they've been asked for anything resulting in any kind of change in how hunt mobs are treated.

[Thurmnmurmn]

But no one has the right to decide anything for anyone. When the spawner decides to wait 30 minutes then everyone attacking after less than that would be open to get reported? Then you may say 30 minutes is too much and then suddenly you want to decide what time is appropriate and then the spawner wouldn't be the one anymore who decides? You can't tell players when they can or can't attack a monster in the open world.

Obviously some guidelines would need to be put in place yes. On primal per example, we mainly go by a 5 minute timer but the spawner can pull sooner if he chooses.
If anyone should have the right to it, it's the one(s) who spawned it.

Funny enough there are some times where you can't just do what you want. Resetting a minion for spawning SS marks per example. That's actionable as it's griefing others.
And then there's the disruptive behavior one too that's random from one situation to another (all depending on the gm).

[KageTokage]

I'd be fine with the way hunts worked currently if not for the fact that the proliferation of third party tools that auto-locate/relay S ranks has made it so you're basically required to rely on such to have a fair chance at getting to them.

If people have to spend several minutes spawning the hunt marks, then those who only show up to kill it can afford to chill for a couple minutes so I would be totally down with the hunts being untargetable for a brief period after they spawn.

It's fundamentally not fun for nigh every S rank to be a mad scramble to get to it before dies due to how readily accessible the locations of their spawns are nowdays and it was already bad enough before crossworld/realm was a thing.

[Jojoya]

When I say early pull it's in relation to what the spawner decides. I'm aware that there's nothing enforcing that in the TOS. That's what I'm requesting for.

The unfortunate problem is that there is no such thing as "spawner's rights" recognized by the game. The Hunt was designed to be kill on sight, regardless of who put in the effort for the spawn, and SE has shown no sign that they want to make it otherwise.

Even if the change was made, how does the game determine what player gets the spawn credit? It takes 10 players to spawn Narrow-Rift. While each data center has its crazy dedicated hunters doing kill counts solo, you're going to have at least 2-3 working together most of the time. If there are a half dozen players showing up to whack a node for a spawn, what happens if the game decides the spawner was a player who hit the node for other reasons then immediately left the zone? If someone spends their afternoon camping Dravanian Forelands doing Cerf's Up solo just to have another player show up during the 5th one and get the killing blow on the mob that completes the FATE, should the game give the spawn credit to the player who had been there the last 3 hours or to the player that showed up 2 minutes ago?

The player community has taken content that was pretty simple - kill on sight - and turned it into a complex mess arguing over things like who should get spawn credit, who gets to pull, how long they should have to wait before pulling, etc.

Considering the entitlement coming from a significant chunk of the community that does absolutely nothing to help with the spawning, is it any wonder some are getting fed up and trying to move the content back to what SE originally intended for it to be?

"never intende for server hopping hunt train"?

dude, are you new for MMO? they make server hopping a thing, then make something rare to spawn, give them some nice drop even an archivement with more awesome reward that need to kill thousand of these things, then someone sudden said probly player won't jumping server to farm the shit out of it, lmao

in eureka people already jump from instance to instance to farm the heck out of fate that drop equipment, way before server and DC travel is a thing

Despite your forum date, you're clearly new to the game not to mention Hunts if you think that Hunts were intended for server hopping. Did you buy that account?

There was no world visit until a few months before Shadowbringers. The Hunt wasn't intended for server hopping because there was no way to server hop. Eureka is instanced, not open world like the Hunt is.

That players are taking advantage of the server hopping to cap tomestones via trains or get their mount achievements faster is no surprise but that does not mean the Hunt was designed for it. There's been nothing about the Hunt changed because players can use world visit now. The long term achievements are still intended to be long term achievements and not something players are supposed to complete in 2 months.

Btw here's some advice for anyone looking to get a potential head start on getting to the S ranks in time.
The best thing would be to get involved into spawning and trying to get in touch with a faloop mod for your server (faloop is a site most players use to track spawns). Depending on the server, you may be able to get faloop permissions right away or may need to prove yourself as a spawner before you do. Once you have perms, you can potentially see spawns before they go public. They have an early access system where only spawners can see it first (mainly for when there's multiple spawns at the same time and we don't wanna release them all at the same time).

The best thing is to avoid Faloop altogether and keep an eye on Centurio.

Faloop's early access system for the privileged few does more to benefit the early pullers than benefit the general community. I've seen "oh no, we forgot public release" happen far too many times.

You know the early pullers are out there and they're getting their information through other means faster than you can communicate the spawn through Faloop. Yet you still use delayed release for the "public" relays. If your complaint is the early pullers keeping others in the community from getting there, in what universe does it make sense to be delaying your own relays to the community you recruited to rely on your third party tool? Are you trying to feed early pullers satisfaction from keeping others from arriving in time?

yeah, sure, jan, claimed to be part of raid guild since 90s, don't understand that gamer will grind the heck out of everything in any game, lmao

Sure, there are some players that do but the majority don't. They don't have that sort of time available to dedicate to a single game.

Designing a game around how the outliers play it instead of designing it with average players in mind is a sure fire way to make a bad game.

I'd be fine with the way hunts worked currently if not for the fact that the proliferation of third party tools that auto-locate/relay S ranks has made it so you're basically required to rely on such to have a fair chance at getting to them.

If people have to spend several minutes spawning the hunt marks, then those who only show up to kill it can afford to chill for a couple minutes so I would be totally down with the hunts being untargetable for a brief period after they spawn.

It's fundamentally not fun for nigh every S rank to be a mad scramble to get to it before dies due to how readily accessible the locations of their spawns are nowdays and it was already bad enough before crossworld/realm was a thing.

Getting flying in ARR has helped a lot with the location problem. Fly up to the ceiling and as long as the weather is fairly clear, you've got a good chance of spotting where it is (or at least eliminating the open spots as places to check). For the other zones, we've got the Faloop and Bear tools to use for mapping. Some of the HW zones may not end up fully mapped but enough spawn points are eliminated to make a spawn quick to locate most of the time (Sea of Clouds being the major pain).

The mindset that we should be able to get to every S rank shouldn't be adopted or encouraged. This isn't Stormblood when we were limited only to what S ranks could spawn on our home worlds. Back then, there might be 60 spawns a week total. With world visit, we have over 600 spawns a week per data center. That's a huge increase in access.

People need to learn not to get upset over a missed S rank. Is it annoying when you get there just as it dies? Sure, it's happened to all of us. But there will be more to spawn and kill.

[Thurmnmurmn]

snip

One idea that could maybe work would be something like putting a 5 min invuln on the S ranks but also giving a buff to all those who spawned. The buff could give the spawners the ability to attack and void the invuln before it's timer runs out if they wish.

As for centurio vs faloop. Having used both systems, faloop is far superior for getting to more marks.
The big difference between the two is faloop is entirely community driven and the community cross references with centurio in case someone out of the community spawned it.
Centurio works off of a bot that's hooked up to the mod sonar. So it only picks up marks that are pinged by its mod users. And I can tell you, the faloop community is wayyyyyy bigger than the sonar community.
And that's also not counting the fact that centurio can also hold marks from going public the same way faloop does.

When I was heavily into spawning I would keep track of centurio on top of faloop and I can 100% confirm (at least for primal) that you can get to far more marks via faloop and it doesn't break TOS with mods.

[Jojoya]

One idea that could maybe work would be something like putting a 5 min invuln on the S ranks but also giving a buff to all those who spawned. The buff could give the spawners the ability to attack and void the invuln before it's timer runs out if they wish.

As for centurio vs faloop. Having used both systems, faloop is far superior for getting to more marks.
The big difference between the two is faloop is entirely community driven and the community cross references with centurio in case someone out of the community spawned it.
Centurio works off of a bot that's hooked up to the mod sonar. So it only picks up marks that are pinged by its mod users. And I can tell you, the faloop community is wayyyyyy bigger than the sonar community.
And that's also not counting the fact that centurio can also hold marks from going public the same way faloop does.

When I was heavily into spawning I would keep track of centurio on top of faloop and I can 100% confirm (at least for primal) that you can get to far more marks via faloop and it doesn't break TOS with mods.

The idea to use a buff to remove the invuln sounds good. The buff could probably be given to everyone in the zone at the instant the S rank is spawned, which would cut down the need to program conditions to determine who is a spawner and should get it. Someone who was randomly in the zone at the right time is rarely going to show up at the S rank let alone cause problems. The early pullers are usually at another S rank or are Aetheryte camping one of the 3 main cities when a spawn happens.

Better if I don't get deep into Faloop issues. All I'll say is that it is a third party tool that is intentionally designed (according to Moo's discussions with me in the past) to delay relays to its general community. We've got very different perspectives about whether a controlled hierarchy is appropriate for the Hunt, especially when said hierarchy is created by a self-selected set of players and not the developers. I don't believe it is. Moo disagrees.

Centurio has the ability to delay relays but doesn't. It was tried at one point and abandoned when it was realized the delay was making the problems it was intended to solve worse for the community, not better. As soon as a spawn hits the mod, it's on Centurio. If there's a delay it's because no mod user was in the zone at the time of the spawn.

Centurio does still have more members than Faloop but your experience is going to vary based on what data center you're playing on. Not every data center is Faloop centric the way Primal is but then Primal has been using Faloop much longer than the other NA data centers (I think longer than the EU data centers as well).

On the "it's not a mod that breaks ToS" comment, all I can do is ask if you know where the person behind that one button press that supposedly makes the difference is getting their information from. A lot of Faloop members, including spawners, don't practice what they preach. It's easy to figure out when player search shows only the two of you in the zone at the moment you spawn something yet Centurio gets the instant ping and you don't have the mod. It would be nice if those players dropped the fake moral superiority. Most of us don't care they're using the mod. We just want the spawn to be shared with the community as fast as possible so the Aetheryte campers and early pullers have less of an edge.

[KageTokage]

The SS rank in particular is probably the biggest example of how actively participating in spawning something is strictly detrimental to you because on a normal day 80-90% of the players who were around for the initial S rank are just going to be camping at the spawn point for the follow-up instead of helping to kill the minions, and there is a realistic chance of not getting a hit in if people decide to pull the thing the instant it spawns at prime time.

[ZiraZ]

A and S/SS ranks should at least be allowed to do their main "mechanic" loop once before they can die, I'll take slower trains if I can at least have some fun and see the chaos, really boring just nuking everything in 30 seconds, I still don't even know the mechanics of some endwalker A ranks.
Just pause their hp at 50% until they finish their main mechanic.
This will also allow for for more time for people to arrive and tag.
And one final request, make all hunt boss mechanics do %hp based damage so tanks can actually die.

[Rowde]

The issue is The Hunt itself, and the developers not taking action to address the content based on how players are interacting with it... completely optimizing the fun out of the activity. They continually fall back on the excuse of "the content was not designed for 300 ppl", but hey, that's how the community has been doing it now for nearly 3 expansions... so maybe that needs to be considered in the design process going forward.

Why even give Hunts mechanics anymore? a Training Dummy might as well spawn and players just have to click on it once for full rewards and leave.

IMO, The Hunt needs to be completely reworked
milestones for the Mount Achievements should be lowered to sift out ppl only doing the Hunt for them faster
overall rewards also need to be nerfed to for the amount of effort each individual player puts into trains, materia is so easy to get via spirit bonding and as dungeon drops... clusters honestly should probably just be removed along with Tomes, make it Seals/Nuts only and have that be it's own exclusive economy

Every Hunt, including the older hunts, should be given a handful of rare drops (a mixture of Non-tradable/and things that can be sold on Market), similar to Eureka/Bozja/Zadnor mobs with incredibly low drop rates so that there is an additional reason for SOMEONE to fight them. Whether it be a cosmetic, a furnishing, a Triple Triad card... it'll brainworm somebody and give them an incentive to track down and fight specific Hunts. and things 'anticipated' to be more desirable should be given to older hunts as a way to repopulate those zones with higher level players...

BUT they'll only be showing up when Windows are open... give Hunts interactivity with FATEs in each Zone. Keep the long windows, but make it to where each FATE completed in the zone knocks off a random amount of time from the spawn window. So you create a loop of Players doing FATEs for a bit, checking spawn conditions, back to FATEs, etc.

[Luluya]

The idea to use a buff to remove the invuln sounds good. The buff could probably be given to everyone in the zone at the instant the S rank is spawned, which would cut down the need to program conditions to determine who is a spawner and should get it. Someone who was randomly in the zone at the right time is rarely going to show up at the S rank let alone cause problems. The early pullers are usually at another S rank or are Aetheryte camping one of the 3 main cities when a spawn happens.

Better if I don't get deep into Faloop issues. All I'll say is that it is a third party tool that is intentionally designed (according to Moo's discussions with me in the past) to delay relays to its general community. We've got very different perspectives about whether a controlled hierarchy is appropriate for the Hunt, especially when said hierarchy is created by a self-selected set of players and not the developers. I don't believe it is. Moo disagrees.

Centurio has the ability to delay relays but doesn't. It was tried at one point and abandoned when it was realized the delay was making the problems it was intended to solve worse for the community, not better. As soon as a spawn hits the mod, it's on Centurio. If there's a delay it's because no mod user was in the zone at the time of the spawn.

Centurio does still have more members than Faloop but your experience is going to vary based on what data center you're playing on. Not every data center is Faloop centric the way Primal is but then Primal has been using Faloop much longer than the other NA data centers (I think longer than the EU data centers as well).

On the "it's not a mod that breaks ToS" comment, all I can do is ask if you know where the person behind that one button press that supposedly makes the difference is getting their information from. A lot of Faloop members, including spawners, don't practice what they preach. It's easy to figure out when player search shows only the two of you in the zone at the moment you spawn something yet Centurio gets the instant ping and you don't have the mod. It would be nice if those players dropped the fake moral superiority. Most of us don't care they're using the mod. We just want the spawn to be shared with the community as fast as possible so the Aetheryte campers and early pullers have less of an edge.

As someone who regularly spawns S ranks and is in both discords as well as hunt linkshells/CWLS on Dynamis, its not hard to see that Centurio has the blatant cheating as often when the micro-second I spawn a node the discord bot will post a message with exactly where it is, even if its in a remote area of the map.

I'm basically only in Centurio at this point just to keep up as their bot pings it and then people rush to it, even when there are already S ranks up and we're waiting to relay until after, so that more people get a chance.