Pulling why?

[ThorneDynasty]

They just make runs more difficult and stressful for no good reason

You make the dungeon runs painful for everyone else. You aren't the main character.

Everything else you said is so ridiculously wrong I can only assume you are baiting.

[Oizen]

Let em do it, if you all die, you die. Not like theres much of a penalty for it.

[Lyth]

There are NO good reasons to do wall-to-wall pulls.

You can see the benefits from reading your tooltips. AoE actions provide more outgoing damage with more mobs present. This translates into faster clears. In addition, a greater proportion of your damage will be under burst, and a greater number of defensive actions will be up for each two pack pull. This translates into faster, safer pulls.

The reason why newer tanks find this process to be stressful is because they mistakenly believe that wipes during wall-to-wall pulls are automatically due to mitigation or healing errors and then take this to indicate a personal failure on their part. While wipes sometimes occur because someone forgets to press a defensive action, it's incredibly rare that you'll die in mid transit due to overwhelming burst damage.

What's more likely is that both supports to burn through their suite of defensive actions due to substandard dps, resulting in a slow death by attrition. In fact, I'll go a step further and say that the main determinant of a group's success during a wall-to-wall pull is group dps. If you have even a single geared and competent DPS with you, you're not going to wipe.

Bottom line, just pull everything. If there isn't enough dps between yourselves to do it safely and you wipe, just scale it back to chain pulls for the rest of the instance. No dialogue whatsoever is necessary for any of this.

[LilimoLimomo]

Hmmm...

While generally speaking it's an agreed-upon etiquette that the tank is the one who pulls, I don't necessarily think it should only be only the tank's decision how much to pull. It would be silly if the tank were treated as a dictator.

Because every group is comprised of multiple people, and each of them have preferences and desires that are valid. Thus, the best path forward is for everyone to collaborate and be understanding. And it's an MMO full of anonymous strangers, so you won't always get that, but it's something that we each can individually do our best to facilitate.

So if others are asking you to pull more and you don't want to, treat that as a conversation. If you don't feel capable of a bigger pull, if you're having a rough day and would rather do smaller pulls, or whatever you reason is, share that with them. It's very possible they'll understand, and even if they don't, you'll have done your best to explain where you're at.

Of course, just because it's a conversation doesn't mean everyone else gets to decide for you. Because you're a part of that conversation, too. If even after the conversation you genuinely feel unable to do a bigger pull, that's fair and valid, and a healthy group will respect that.

But if you're in an unhealthy group who pulls more than you feel like you can handle, just remember that you're under no obligation to scoop up every enemy that someone else pulled. Grab only the monsters that you feel like you can handle and just do your best. You can ask them kindly not to do that afterwards, and if they keep doing it you can report them. That's one of the other benefits of treating your group with compassion and respect: if you've done your best to openly communicate in an attempt to resolve disagreements, that serves as strong evidence when GM's look into your case.

That said, I hope it doesn't come to that. Hopefully if you bring your friendly demeanor and talk things out with your groups, that will reduce how much this is happening to you. Good luck!

[dspguy]

Early on in ARR, there were dungeons where it was quite possible to overpull for the average player or maybe even the above average player. Looking at you, Brayflox and Brayflox (Hard). The problem with that was that many healers couldn't handle it. Or they just weren't used to it. So, you actually had to waste time at the beginning of a dungeon asking the healer if they could handle wall-to-wall. And then there'd be griping if it failed.

In my opinion, many players steered away from healers and (to a lesser extent) tanks because of this. SE "fixed it" by pretty much making nearly every dungeon since be two pulls and then a wall. And they've followed that formula since. Apparently we aren't able to decide for ourselves how much is too much.

[Supersnow845]

Early on in ARR, there were dungeons where it was quite possible to overpull for the average player or maybe even the above average player. Looking at you, Brayflox and Brayflox (Hard). The problem with that was that many healers couldn't handle it. Or they just weren't used to it. So, you actually had to waste time at the beginning of a dungeon asking the healer if they could handle wall-to-wall. And then there'd be griping if it failed.

In my opinion, many players steered away from healers and (to a lesser extent) tanks because of this. SE "fixed it" by pretty much making nearly every dungeon since be two pulls and then a wall. And they've followed that formula since. Apparently we aren't able to decide for ourselves how much is too much.

To be fair ARR had horrible quirks that made a lot of dungeons harder than they needed to be, PLD didn’t have sword oath so could only be in tank stance which massively nerfed their damage potential, SCH didn’t have leeches which made the final boss a nightmare and if you were a melee paired with a caster then you could just kiss your TP goodbye, all of which led to garbage AOE damage potential if you got the wrong comp

A lot of the difficulty of the old encounters came from weird levels of skills, about the only thing that still exists like that is the fact that it feels annoying as hell to not have medica 2 on WHM in aurum vale

[Post]

You can bet my first time doing every new dungeon in DT I'm going to wall to wall because I know the design team is too lazy or cowardly to change any of this, and I'm going to be fine because the tanks are all going to have further upgrades to their level 82 Bloodwhetting cooldowns, everyone's going to be running around in full raid gear and Manderville Relics, and it'll be a miracle if they ever include monsters with mechanics like Final Sting, Dragon/Ram's Voice, midbusters or unavoidable non-tank damage ever again.

[rawker]

I mean, do we really need tanks at the max-level dungeons anymore?

It's the same rhetoric with the rest of the roles. Basically, dungeons can be cleared by any jobs. That's one thing SE delivered. It may not be favorable to some but at least they stuck with their goal.

[Debiiru]

I recently started levling a dark knight, after levling 7 other classes, 1 a healer, rest DPS. I find it hard often to know how much i can pull, as im not that familiar with all the dungeons yet and the usual paths. But i have notice that some dungeons 60s or 70s i think, feel like im really squichy, and i rather take my time than whipe the group, also as im not always sure about the healers im paired with. Sometimes on my healer, before i got better at it, i had to ask tanks to slow down as i had truble keeping them alive. But i noticed that if i said at a begining of a run, i told them i was a rather new tank, and to take it easy on me, i usualy get a positive reponse, and a more fun and perhaps not such a quick run, but we do well, and communicate.

But i rather pick one pack at a time until i know the dungeon and my class well enough to go ham.

[RinaB]

If you're a skilled player you will understand if a tank of a certain job is hesitant to pull more. I personally lly don't care if a tank pulls single groups and I never pull for the group out of control and respect. All the comments here are ignoramus players probably on my blacklist. Pull what you know you'll survive, if you survive, the group survives provided your healer isn't sitting on the forums complaining about dps