XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[Aravell]

This game needs a proper Hall of the Novice that's equivalently maintained to keep up with current relevant mechanics but also each job's rotation and basic optimization techniques for each current patch.

I honestly wouldn't trust any official rotation. The official opener book they had for SB had a quadruple weave in the BRD opener. Most of the other jobs had some funny mistakes too, but the quad weave opener is the only one that really sticks out in my memory.

[Supersnow845]

I honestly wouldn't trust any official rotation. The official opener book they had for SB had a quadruple weave in the BRD opener. Most of the other jobs had some funny mistakes too, but the quad weave opener is the only one that really sticks out in my memory.

Plus even optimal use of jobs has weird janky use of some skills, I’d like to see hall of novice explain how you are actually supposed to use radiant finale with one codon in the opener because square decided to not just give you 3 codon to align radiant finale anyway

[Aravell]

Plus even optimal use of jobs has weird janky use of some skills, I’d like to see hall of novice explain how you are actually supposed to use radiant finale with one codon in the opener because square decided to not just give you 3 codon to align radiant finale anyway

Don't even need to look for optimal usage, even standard openers have some quirks, like the double solar MNK opener for example.

[Naraku_Diabolos]

Because for some of us (such as healer mains) every single option we get to pick between is equally garbage, there is no choice because there is no “good” option

I actually like it that some healers have similar abilities and spells. It makes it easier to play or try out. Remember, FFXIV is a very accessible MMORPG. Sure, it can be brain dead easy with mechanics or simplified classes, but this game is made to draw in a ton of people. Look at WoW and how difficult and stupid it is for new players; WoW is literally a bad game because they expect you to know everything before playing the game, even the toxic playerbase. The reason the FFXIV is way more easy going is be the game is FUN and people like helping people. Only toxicity and boredom is what a small percentage of players have in how they play or in their mindset.

[Supersnow845]

I actually like it that some healers have similar abilities and spells. It makes it easier to play or try out. Remember, FFXIV is a very accessible MMORPG. Sure, it can be brain dead easy with mechanics or simplified classes, but this game is made to draw in a ton of people. Look at WoW and how difficult and stupid it is for new players; WoW is literally a bad game because they expect you to know everything before playing the game, even the toxic playerbase. The reason the FFXIV is way more easy going is be the game is FUN and people like helping people. Only toxicity and boredom is what a small percentage of players have in how they play or in their mindset.

I never expected that comment of all comments to be twisted into WOW bad 14 good but here we are

[Colt47]

So I went back and played all the different roles including healer thanks to the relic weapons and right now it feels like they have tanks and DPS in a relatively good space. Yes, some tanks are rough around the edges, but overall they function as they should and it doesn't feel boring to keep playing them. Healers are problematic but it's complicated to even get into that subject as it isn't as strait forward as them needing more complex dps rotations. It's more like the scaling of healing when it comes to stats vs the punishment systems in place are very fickle.

Kind of hoping the astro rework is an experiment to see if they can fix the issue.

[ForteNightshade]

You say that, but when Orbonne was current the amount of people that would instantly leave when they got placed in it randomly showed you it was too hard for the average player or at most not worth the time. I think Orbonne would've been better if they eased people into it. It's why the next two sets of Alliance Raids have been significantly easier. There is a difficulty limit. I'm not saying Orbonne is it, but the way everything else is super easy and then BAM is bad game design. Because you alienate the people who can't hang and have no business doing it in the first place. That's my take on it anyway. Now, with power creep, it's a joke to run. But back then...

This was only a problem in Shadowbringers, and a minor one at that. Orbonne had zero issues with people leaving throughout its entire relevancy. Sure, you might get the occasional Vote Abandon or people leaving but it wasn't some sort of crisis. So why did it happen? Because the reward structure was horrendously imbalanced. A guaranteed, braindead Syrcus Tower run gave the exact same rewards as a 30 minute Orbonne, which could take substantially longer with bad players. Crystal Tower existing in the state it's in severely damaged Alliance Roulette. Power creep as a whole has ruined a good chunk of old content.

With all that said, had they just nerfed Cid's tower mechanic slightly, I'd grudgingly accept it. Instead, they nerfed damn near everything and then tossed echo on the whole thing. It turned one of the best alliance bosses in the game into a complete chump who can barely touch you.

[Colt47]

Honestly, I just don't like how end game is kind of becoming the model they want for everything. The 2 minute meta works for a situation where you have a strict pattern that has to be followed, which is what savage and EX fights effectively are, but it fails when dealing with situations where there is no strict pattern and someone is expected to rotate abilities, which is what people do during leveling roulette. The entire reason that many end game players seem to be horrible at doing older content, is that they are trained to use their mits specifically for keyed attacks rather than rotate them to reduce general damage.

[NarhiFaunlha]

I'm speaking from the bias of a former ESO Raider and casual to mid-core content. I main Gunbreaker.

I think the two minute meta is partially the reason why job design feels incomplete, because the jobs in this game are designed to align with every other job. FFXIV's entire combat design philosophy is based on collaboration, as opposed to something like ESO where you can solo most types of content and your own individual DPS is weighed more heavily. If you want more interesting jobs, the two-minute meta needs to be eliminated, potency across the board needs to be increased, and job identity would need to be drastically altered.

The reason for Endwalker jobs feeling the way they do is to focus more on fight mechanics instead, due to the low skill ceiling for most rotations. The problem is that FFXIV's fight mechanics (such as Orbonne Monastery) is that the goal or 'answer' to the mechanic isn't always clear. Take Mustadio's sniper mechanic for example, logically, why would you turn around and show your back to someone? Why does the Thunder God's attacks depend on the direction of the sword? The telegraph is illogical or difficult to decipher, which causes players to become confused. There is no earlier mention or learning phase prior to the fight. So rather than being something that is engaging, players (especially new players) will become frustrated at the failure of mechanics they had no way of knowing the answer to.

[Colt47]

I'm speaking from the bias of a former ESO Raider and casual to mid-core content. I main Gunbreaker.

I think the two minute meta is partially the reason why job design feels incomplete, because the jobs in this game are designed to align with every other job. FFXIV's entire combat design philosophy is based on collaboration, as opposed to something like ESO where you can solo most types of content and your own individual DPS is weighed more heavily. If you want more interesting jobs, the two-minute meta needs to be eliminated, potency across the board needs to be increased, and job identity would need to be drastically altered.

The reason for Endwalker jobs feeling the way they do is to focus more on fight mechanics instead, due to the low skill ceiling for most rotations. The problem is that FFXIV's fight mechanics (such as Orbonne Monastery) is that the goal or 'answer' to the mechanic isn't always clear. Take Mustadio's sniper mechanic for example, logically, why would you turn around and show your back to someone? Why does the Thunder God's attacks depend on the direction of the sword? The telegraph is illogical or difficult to decipher, which causes players to become confused. There is no earlier mention or learning phase prior to the fight. So rather than being something that is engaging, players (especially new players) will become frustrated at the failure of mechanics they had no way of knowing the answer to.

Oh yeah, the tells in this game are a puzzle in themselves and the truth is that the only reason I even know Mustadios mechanic is because I learned what the tell even meant. They even had to go back and redo some of the tells back in ARR because people had a hard time understanding what they meant.