XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[Mithron]

This game needs a proper Hall of the Novice that's equivalently maintained to keep up with current relevant mechanics but also each job's rotation and basic optimization techniques for each current patch.

[TaleraRistain]

This game needs a proper Hall of the Novice that's equivalently maintained to keep up with current relevant mechanics but also each job's rotation and basic optimization techniques for each current patch.

I don't find the idea of an extended Hall of the Novice that bad, or some instances like the SGE/RPR instances that walked you through some key aspects of your job. But how would SE outline rotations? Rotations, while being something the community has number crunched, aren't located in the game. And what happens if SE did outline a rotation but it differed from what the community sites said it should be? Another challenge would be explaining *when* the rotation is important. There are basics you can get by with in more casual content that will keep things chugging along nicely and then fine-tuned optimizations that are needed in more endgame content. And they tend to leave those fine-tuned discussions among the community. And there's the concern that if players are required to go through this instance and hit this specific rotation and can't then that could make the game feel less accessible. And I really don't think they want XIV to get that sort of reputation.

[Aravell]

This game needs a proper Hall of the Novice that's equivalently maintained to keep up with current relevant mechanics but also each job's rotation and basic optimization techniques for each current patch.

I honestly wouldn't trust any official rotation. The official opener book they had for SB had a quadruple weave in the BRD opener. Most of the other jobs had some funny mistakes too, but the quad weave opener is the only one that really sticks out in my memory.

[Supersnow845]

I honestly wouldn't trust any official rotation. The official opener book they had for SB had a quadruple weave in the BRD opener. Most of the other jobs had some funny mistakes too, but the quad weave opener is the only one that really sticks out in my memory.

Plus even optimal use of jobs has weird janky use of some skills, I’d like to see hall of novice explain how you are actually supposed to use radiant finale with one codon in the opener because square decided to not just give you 3 codon to align radiant finale anyway

[Aravell]

Plus even optimal use of jobs has weird janky use of some skills, I’d like to see hall of novice explain how you are actually supposed to use radiant finale with one codon in the opener because square decided to not just give you 3 codon to align radiant finale anyway

Don't even need to look for optimal usage, even standard openers have some quirks, like the double solar MNK opener for example.

[Colt47]

So I went back and played all the different roles including healer thanks to the relic weapons and right now it feels like they have tanks and DPS in a relatively good space. Yes, some tanks are rough around the edges, but overall they function as they should and it doesn't feel boring to keep playing them. Healers are problematic but it's complicated to even get into that subject as it isn't as strait forward as them needing more complex dps rotations. It's more like the scaling of healing when it comes to stats vs the punishment systems in place are very fickle.

Kind of hoping the astro rework is an experiment to see if they can fix the issue.

[Colt47]

Honestly, I just don't like how end game is kind of becoming the model they want for everything. The 2 minute meta works for a situation where you have a strict pattern that has to be followed, which is what savage and EX fights effectively are, but it fails when dealing with situations where there is no strict pattern and someone is expected to rotate abilities, which is what people do during leveling roulette. The entire reason that many end game players seem to be horrible at doing older content, is that they are trained to use their mits specifically for keyed attacks rather than rotate them to reduce general damage.

[Saraide]

Honestly, I just don't like how end game is kind of becoming the model they want for everything. The 2 minute meta works for a situation where you have a strict pattern that has to be followed, which is what savage and EX fights effectively are, but it fails when dealing with situations where there is no strict pattern and someone is expected to rotate abilities, which is what people do during leveling roulette. The entire reason that many end game players seem to be horrible at doing older content, is that they are trained to use their mits specifically for keyed attacks rather than rotate them to reduce general damage.

I dont think these statements are sound. Bursts being on a 2 minute cooldown is completely irrelevant in dungeons. Stuff is going to just drift wildly in DF dungeons anyway.

You think that the tanks who cant hit their mits are mainly end game players? How did you come to that conclusion?

[NarhiFaunlha]

I'm speaking from the bias of a former ESO Raider and casual to mid-core content. I main Gunbreaker.

I think the two minute meta is partially the reason why job design feels incomplete, because the jobs in this game are designed to align with every other job. FFXIV's entire combat design philosophy is based on collaboration, as opposed to something like ESO where you can solo most types of content and your own individual DPS is weighed more heavily. If you want more interesting jobs, the two-minute meta needs to be eliminated, potency across the board needs to be increased, and job identity would need to be drastically altered.

The reason for Endwalker jobs feeling the way they do is to focus more on fight mechanics instead, due to the low skill ceiling for most rotations. The problem is that FFXIV's fight mechanics (such as Orbonne Monastery) is that the goal or 'answer' to the mechanic isn't always clear. Take Mustadio's sniper mechanic for example, logically, why would you turn around and show your back to someone? Why does the Thunder God's attacks depend on the direction of the sword? The telegraph is illogical or difficult to decipher, which causes players to become confused. There is no earlier mention or learning phase prior to the fight. So rather than being something that is engaging, players (especially new players) will become frustrated at the failure of mechanics they had no way of knowing the answer to.

[Colt47]

I'm speaking from the bias of a former ESO Raider and casual to mid-core content. I main Gunbreaker.

I think the two minute meta is partially the reason why job design feels incomplete, because the jobs in this game are designed to align with every other job. FFXIV's entire combat design philosophy is based on collaboration, as opposed to something like ESO where you can solo most types of content and your own individual DPS is weighed more heavily. If you want more interesting jobs, the two-minute meta needs to be eliminated, potency across the board needs to be increased, and job identity would need to be drastically altered.

The reason for Endwalker jobs feeling the way they do is to focus more on fight mechanics instead, due to the low skill ceiling for most rotations. The problem is that FFXIV's fight mechanics (such as Orbonne Monastery) is that the goal or 'answer' to the mechanic isn't always clear. Take Mustadio's sniper mechanic for example, logically, why would you turn around and show your back to someone? Why does the Thunder God's attacks depend on the direction of the sword? The telegraph is illogical or difficult to decipher, which causes players to become confused. There is no earlier mention or learning phase prior to the fight. So rather than being something that is engaging, players (especially new players) will become frustrated at the failure of mechanics they had no way of knowing the answer to.

Oh yeah, the tells in this game are a puzzle in themselves and the truth is that the only reason I even know Mustadios mechanic is because I learned what the tell even meant. They even had to go back and redo some of the tells back in ARR because people had a hard time understanding what they meant.