XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[CelestiCer]

Here's my 2 cents about that.

No one will ever say "Bro you gotta try this game, its good cause the controls are so complex!". Its just not going to happen, its not what makes a game good. The best games tend to have simple controls and their complexity come from game play mechanics. To me, almost all of the complexity of FFXIV has been stripped out, and it's all kinda mindless right now. I'd like to see that change more on a mechanical level rather than the buttons you press in sequence over the course of 10 minutes.

If the complexity of this game is resting solely on pressing 123 over 111, its too late for us. I functionally see very little difference between the two.

Hmmm, bit skewed to say simple controls are better when it has complex mechanics. Cause you can't apply this to XIV, that leaves literally 95% of all content in the dust... So you might as well Quote Yoshi-P and say " Just go play Ultimate ". And by your logic...Tic-Tac-Toe is a better game then Chess even though I know this is a skewed comparison.

Here's my 3 cents... I prefer a medium well seasoned steak, nice sear sometimes basted giving it depth and layers to its taste while I fill my tummy. A unseasoned boiled chicken? functionally will fill our tummies the same way yes very...very valid... but at that point? I don't see a difference when I play XIV Job-Gameplay-wise? vs reading a book be it a children's book or a dictionary while simultaneously squeezing a stress-ball the same way repeatedly in the same manner over and over... Oh, " functionally speaking " that is, mhm.

Apparently advocating for better is somehow Taboo. We want mediocrity. Promote it. Why play XIV? for everything but it's Job-Gameplay as you yourself put it. Why not make it also cause of Job-Gameplay... what's the negative of doing so?

[ty_taurus]

Here's my 2 cents about that.

No one will ever say "Bro you gotta try this game, its good cause the controls are so complex!". Its just not going to happen, its not what makes a game good.

I don't agree with this part in particular. I don't think complexity is a requirement for a game's success, but there are absolutely players who rave about complexity. I work for a mobile game company, for example, and my Boss and I both are into mobile gacha games like Genshin and Star Rail. He's particularly interested in the upcoming Wuthering Waves specifically because its combat is more technical and complex than Genshin's which is not entirely simple, but doesn't really feature many technical aspects to its combat largely because being on Mobile first means the controls make it difficult to perform at a technical level. Wuthering Waves is not going to be a mobile game and is emphasizing its combat more, which is a selling point to that game over its biggest competitor. This is anecdotal of course, but there are many games where the complexity and depth are a selling point for people.

Now, simple games can also be very successful, but I think something worth noting is a lot of games that are simple, are simple on the surface, yet have an ocean of depth beneath the surface that players can optionally engage in. Super Smash Bros for example is, on the surface, a casual party fighter game, but also has an entire community of competitive players who will break down details as small and seemingly minute as frame data. Super Mario 64, a classic masterpiece, is a simple game to play with lots of ways to engage with its platforming at a far more technical level. Look at any speedrun of the game, and you can see that in action. Even Tetris had a layer of optional complexity that drastically impacts how a player builds and clears their map: T-spinning.

FFXIV on the other hand was already a simple game. What they have been doing is not making the game more simple, but actively stifling the optional depth that used to exist within its job design. In that regard, I would argue FFXIV is gradually approaching Balan Wonderworld with each expansion, a game full of power ups that are all basically the same and a control scheme where every button does the same thing--A game where depth is stifled and you are forced to take the game at face value and nothing further.

Bushnell's Law: The best video games are the ones that are easy to play but difficult to master. FFXIV stands in opposition to this by being a game that has always been easy to play, but seems desperate to force it to be easy to master as well. It's like with this segment of Misshapen Chair's more recent FFXIV job design video...

"Because every single little tiny thing that requires any modicum of additional effort or is slightly outside of the exact scenario that they practice is frustrating."

In his video, he's referring to the types of players who want to be the best at the game, but have no interest in putting in any amount of effort to become the best. But that does seem to be how the design team are approaching changes. Anything that even sounds like it has the tiniest amount of complexity is something that needs to be purged, or sanded down into oblivion.

[strawberrycake]

Here's my 2 cents about that.

No one will ever say "Bro you gotta try this game, its good cause the controls are so complex!". Its just not going to happen, its not what makes a game good. The best games tend to have simple controls and their complexity come from game play mechanics. To me, almost all of the complexity of FFXIV has been stripped out, and it's all kinda mindless right now. I'd like to see that change more on a mechanical level rather than the buttons you press in sequence over the course of 10 minutes.

If the complexity of this game is resting solely on pressing 123 over 111, its too late for us. I functionally see very little difference between the two.

Elden Ring and the Entire Soulsborne series would like to have words with you.

[strawberrycake]

Half of the people in here advocating for a combo button over actually pressing the buttons have always been here and have always wanted it, even back when XIV was more complex, they're just using the current status quo to push the idea of it more.

[ZiraZ]

2 more weeks until they show us these amazing mechanics that will replace combos and dawn a new age of mmo job design.

[strawberrycake]

2 more weeks until they show us these amazing mechanics that will replace combos and dawn a new age of mmo job design.

You mean more ways for Yoshida and his team to be lazy about actual job balance since all these changes stem from them and not us since no one asked for the 2 min meta

[Supersnow845]

And a trinity system doesn’t necessarily mean paper tanks and healslut healers, hell DPS weren’t even originally part of the trinity, the last third of the trinity was CC/support (denoted by yellow)

The trinity can work with everyone contributing damage, 14 just enforces the trinity when most content doesn’t actually need it so the whole system falls apart

[NYCLouisGamer]

paper tanks and healslut healers

That would be wonderful! Add to that a mechanic where healers can choose to do a complicated rotation to gain more heals once they go OOM... and we have liftoff!

This insane insistence on SE making all jobs able to solo all content is killing a great game.

[Supersnow845]

That would be wonderful! Add to that a mechanic where healers can choose to do a complicated rotation to gain more heals once they go OOM... and we have liftoff!

This insane insistence on SE making all jobs able to solo all content is killing a great game.

I mean if we adhered to a “classic trinity” design then thematically the WOL couldn’t be a healer or tank which would ruin the entire MSQ

[NYCLouisGamer]

I mean if we adhered to a “classic trinity” design then thematically the WOL couldn’t be a healer or tank which would ruin the entire MSQ

But virtually all other MMO games also have your main character as the "hero", regardless of role. Yet, they still are able to keep the classic trinity design. The fact that a Warrior can heal at all (outside of potions) screams single-player.