XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[ty_taurus]

All of tose things existed, but could you walk up to anyone back then and talk to them about that or did everyone who played pokemon, or even remotely knew about it just see it as a kids game? The point is rather simple, Game Freak doesn't market all of that or talk about it. they just sell cute pokemon and maybe one big competitive feature that most people won't think twice about. Like SE, Gamefreak sells simplicity to a fault. It's semantics to talk about the rest when again, everything else about pokemon is agressively niche, the wider audience isn't losing out on much for not playing into those things like how we're losing out if the majority of people keep refusing to acknowledge how XIV works and functions at it's core.

The inital sales of a single player game matters more then the people who stick around for official tournaments. So the children matter more. With an MMO, long term subs matter more then launch day numbers, so this is a bigger issue with XIV selling simplicity like Pokemon.

You're missing the point. Just because the complexity and depth were not the main focus of the Pokemon franchise does not invalidate the existing of said complexity and depth. In fact, that complexity and depth existed in spite of the game's lack of focus on it. So the game was able to exist appealing to both the kids and casual Pokemon players who don't care about the competitive scene as well as the people who are interested in the deeper, more complex competitive scene. That is my point.

Why can't FFXIV, a game designed for a much older audience, do the same? Why can't it sell its more casual story mode and easier game modes while still offering jobs that have a level of depth and complexity not required to get through said story mode and easier game modes, but that players have the freedom to engage with at their leisure? Your point would make sense if every new generation, Pokemon sought to erase complexity and difficulty. While the story mode has generally become easier, and grinding has gotten faster, the competitive scene is if anything more complex than it has ever been before, not less.

[strawberrycake]

I feel like the fact there's the type matchup table in Pokemon to learn means it's already above current job complexity for... most jobs, really

And then you have extra things on top of that, like weather effects, STAB bonuses, held items... Yeh, even at it's 'most casual' level, Pokemon offers quite a lot of complexities

In FFXIV terms, having the complexity balance shifted away from jobs and into encounter design, imo, is like having the complexity of Pokemon be shifted out of how many Pokemon are in the dex, abilities, moves, held items, all that jazz, and said complexity being moved into the 'gimmick' of the generation. Be that Mega Evolutions, Gigantamax, or Tera-whatsit. Yeh, it looks cool when your Pokemon gets really big, or changes type, but is it worth it if it comes at the cost of having less overall moves to choose from learning?

So I'm looking at it like this right, for a 6-7 year old They aren't seeing all of that, some are, but not most, and that great, but in XIV, we have gotten as simple as possible and heres the crazy part, the comparison is possible becauase with how simple XIV is, a 40 year old who can drive and file his own taxes, can;t understand how to tankswap. Both games are at the apex of Extremely simple and a 40 year old who put his kids through college is comperable to a 7 year old whos just mashing A and laughing at big shiny monsters with no futher thoughts. Yes there is depth in pokemon, no there isn't depth in XIV, but the problem is we're treating a an adult like a child. Thats the point of the analogy. XD

[strawberrycake]

You're missing the point. Just because the complexity and depth were not the main focus of the Pokemon franchise does not invalidate the existing of said complexity and depth. In fact, that complexity and depth existed in spite of the game's lack of focus on it. So the game was able to exist appealing to both the kids and casual Pokemon players who don't care about the competitive scene as well as the people who are interested in the deeper, more complex competitive scene. That is my point.

Why can't FFXIV, a game designed for a much older audience, do the same? Why can't it sell its more casual story mode and easier game modes while still offering jobs that have a level of depth and complexity not required to get through said story mode and easier game modes, but that players have the freedom to engage with at their leisure? Your point would make sense if every new generation, Pokemon sought to erase complexity and difficulty. While the story mode has generally become easier, and grinding has gotten faster, the competitive scene is if anything more complex than it has ever been before, not less.

See what I just said to Forsaken Roe my guy. All we're saying is you can brute force both games, and thats bad given the VAST differences because between them xD

[VentVanitas]

Pokemon has the cajones to at least wall bad players that refuse to learn the game's mechanics (e.g. brute forcing a gym with a type disadvantage). XIV doesn't even do that for the majority of its content because you're always at bare minimum accompanied by 3 other players to pick up your slack.

[CelestiCer]

Western playerbase :^) / Sure, it happens everywhere, but western audiences lean more into a sort of 'x has to change, not me' mentality.

Ironic... I am finally not seen as a foreigner in the West and on the XIV forums off all places. Gotta say this made me smile, thank you...

Though I have to disagree on the mentality part. Because the fact I pay subscription is acceptance to a degree. I would even go as far as " Tolerate bad changes". Then again I shouldn't need to say this if I was truly satisfied with the Job-Design, I used to be? now I am not and I believe the game can still improve or redeem from it very easily even if my Faith in Square isn't there much to get to that point.

I don't believe my mentality is flawed in wanting the game to improve, and accept what I consider mediocrity when it comes to Job-Design. mhm

[ty_taurus]

See what I just said to Forsaken Roe my guy. All we're saying is you can brute force both games, and thats bad given the VAST differences because between them xD

I think there’s just some confusing between what you’re saying and what your main point is, at least for me.

[ForsakenRoe]

Pokemon has the cajones to at least wall bad players that refuse to learn the game's mechanics (e.g. brute forcing a gym with a type disadvantage). XIV doesn't even do that for the majority of its content because you're always at bare minimum accompanied by 3 other players to pick up your slack.

yep, I got personally walled by a dark/rock type Tyranitar when my strongest 'mon was an Alakazam (dark being immune to psychic/takes 50% less damage from ghost, the two move types my 'mon had), ended up having to RNG it with Metronome (and got the win via a Brick Break roll, which is fighting type, 4x effective against a dark/rock type)

At this point, tank selfsustain is now so high that I think you might actually be able to afk as a healer through every story-required dungeon and still get to the end of EW. The spookiest level bracket would ironically be the 45-50 area, but even then, GNB gets Aurora there so... GNB from 1-50, swap your carry-tank to WAR as soon as it gets Raw Intuition at 54/56 (whichever it was). I'd test that theory but I don't feel like griefing randoms for the sake of experimentation

[sindriiisgaming]

snip

the issue with the jobs is the combat system and lack of overworld playing. i dont wanna farm the same fight over and over with the same buttons over and over.

[strawberrycake]

Ironic... I am finally not seen as a foreigner in the West and on the XIV forums off all places. Gotta say this made me smile, thank you...

Though I have to disagree on the mentality part. Because the fact I pay subscription is acceptance to a degree. I would even go as far as " Tolerate bad changes". Then again I shouldn't need to say this if I was truly satisfied with the Job-Design, I used to be? now I am not and I believe the game can still improve or redeem from it very easily even if my Faith in Square isn't there much to get to that point.

I don't believe my mentality is flawed in wanting the game to improve, and accept what I consider mediocrity when it comes to Job-Design. mhm

It's because people dehumanize anyone East of the UK, Take how Mecia believed that Japanese players would be more compliant to healer changes, when in fact they're actively saying Yoshida is out of touch and doesn't play his own game. People seem to think if you;re an easterner you're just willing to take what gets thrown at you and thats it.

[CelestiCer]

It's because people dehumanize anyone East of the UK, Take how Mecia believed that Japanese players would be more compliant to healer changes, when in fact they're actively saying Yoshida is out of touch and doesn't play his own game. People seem to think if you;re an easterner you're just willing to take what gets thrown at you and thats it.

I loved the post. I never get treated as anything but a foreigner in the West. " Go back to your own country " is something I haven't heard in a while? but when that happened was years ago where I did go to my home country, only to be treated as a white foreigner by supposedly my own people to whom I returned to... So being regarded Western, in the West by I am guessing someone from the Eastern player-base when I am technically not by origin or ethnicity? I loved it, that's comedy relief I didn't knew I needed XD Though I do play on NA mostly so they are not entirely wrong either ( but this is off topic >: )

What I wonder is if the Dev's are out of touch as well, regarding Job designs or how many they have employed on the Dev team. How many of them are actually playing the Jobs they are balancing for example. I read somewhere there isn't a healer main on the Dev team? not sure on this, need confirmation