XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[ForteNightshade]

I feel that Yoshida treats us like toddlers in kindergarten, as if he has to protect us from all the evil of the outside world and therefore has a duty to create a safe environment for everyone, without any risk of harm. As if he had to hold our hands all the time so we wouldn't get hurt. That's pretty stupid, man.

At this point, he should remove the battles from the game, after all, nothing is going to be easier and more comfy than a visual novel.

Yoshida has the philosophy that gamers want everything immediately, which he isn't entirely wrong about. A lot of players are impatient and want the cool thing to happen quickly. FFXVI is designed with that belief in mind hence why it's all flash but generally rather lacking in substance. FFXIV is much the same. If played in small doses, everything on offer is pretty solid. A shallow or simplistic gameplay system will last longer the less you interact with it. Pokemon has more or less built its entire existence on proving that theory. Unfortunately, that philosophy in a game that wants to keep you around becomes stale the more you engage with it.

[ty_taurus]

Yoshida has the philosophy that gamers want everything immediately, which he isn't entirely wrong about. A lot of players are impatient and want the cool thing to happen quickly. FFXVI is designed with that belief in mind hence why it's all flash but generally rather lacking in substance. FFXIV is much the same. If played in small doses, everything on offer is pretty solid. A shallow or simplistic gameplay system will last longer the less you interact with it. Pokemon has more or less built its entire existence on proving that theory. Unfortunately, that philosophy in a game that wants to keep you around becomes stale the more you engage with it.

Except competitive Pokemon is actually quite deep and complex. Scarlet and Violet are literally glorified freshman-year game design student projects with the polish of a rotting wooden cabin, but the actual competitive gameplay experience has retained the same level of depth and complexity, if not more from what new moves, Pokemon, and mechanics have been added.

[strawberrycake]

Except competitive Pokemon is actually quite deep and complex. Scarlet and Violet are literally glorified freshman-year game design student projects with the polish of a rotting wooden cabin, but the actual competitive gameplay experience has retained the same level of depth and complexity, if not more from what new moves, Pokemon, and mechanics have been added.

This is true. But most of the pokemon playerbase isn't the old school vets from back in the 90s who play competitive now a days and do nuzlockes and pokemon rom hacks, it's the latest generation of young kids, who are playing cus cute animals that fight. The main Audience plays it because ti's a shallow kids game. They may grow up or pivot while they;re young, and move into the more or less niche competitive scene and other sub communitires of pokemon.

So they're right, Pokemon proved shallow gameplay can and will sell.

[ty_taurus]

This is true. But most of the pokemon playerbase isn't the old school vets from back in the 90s who play competitive now a days and do nuzlockes and pokemon rom hacks, it's the latest generation of young kids, who are playing cus cute animals that fight. The main Audience plays it because ti's a shallow kids game. They may grow up or pivot while they;re young, and move into the more or less niche competitive scene and other sub communitires of pokemon.

So they're right, Pokemon proved shallow gameplay can and will sell.

I don't really agree. Yes, the target demographic of Pokemon is young children, which is precisely why the games are very shallow on the surface. They want someone who's as young as perhaps 6 or 7 to be able to play through the story without getting hit with difficulty spikes they cannot surmount (which also brings into question the resistance against voice-acting since some kids at that age still can't read, or have limited reading comprehension, but whatever). But to circle back to that oh-so-subtle statement I made about "on the surface," that doesn't mean the depth and complexity doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, FFXIV, a game that has a target demographic of people who at least can purchase a subscription fee, so at minimum 18 years or older, is directly erasing depth and removing it from the game. Job design is being demolished at every turn to make the gameplay experience simple by force. Pokemon would would be more analogous to Heavensward. Because for as much as Heavesnward has a reputation of being the most complex that job design has ever been, nearly nothing in the game demanded you engage with that complexity at that level.

Similarly, in Pokemon, you can EV train your Pokemon. You can Breed perfect IV Pokemon. You can seek out Pokemon with hidden abilities. These are all things that you have the option to do even though nothing in the main story asks you to do it. Does that not sound similar to Heavensward FFXIV? Or even Stormblood?

Endwalker would be like Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, games that explicitly removed many different aspects of Pokemon's complexity. Abilities? Gone. Mega Evolution? Gone. Like 80% of the Pokedex? Gone. Sound familiar?

[Mecia]

Im not trying to argue PvP reward structures, its just an extension of my point with differences in mentalities.

[strawberrycake]

Im not trying to argue PvP reward structures, its just an extension of my point with differences in mentalities.

You mean how Jp, EU, and NA all hate the changes? The only difference in mentality is that JP isn;t afraid to tell Yoshida he;s fullof it and needs to do better and blatantly insult the man.

[VentVanitas]

Pokemon has the cajones to at least wall bad players that refuse to learn the game's mechanics (e.g. brute forcing a gym with a type disadvantage). XIV doesn't even do that for the majority of its content because you're always at bare minimum accompanied by 3 other players to pick up your slack.

[ForsakenRoe]

Pokemon has the cajones to at least wall bad players that refuse to learn the game's mechanics (e.g. brute forcing a gym with a type disadvantage). XIV doesn't even do that for the majority of its content because you're always at bare minimum accompanied by 3 other players to pick up your slack.

yep, I got personally walled by a dark/rock type Tyranitar when my strongest 'mon was an Alakazam (dark being immune to psychic/takes 50% less damage from ghost, the two move types my 'mon had), ended up having to RNG it with Metronome (and got the win via a Brick Break roll, which is fighting type, 4x effective against a dark/rock type)

At this point, tank selfsustain is now so high that I think you might actually be able to afk as a healer through every story-required dungeon and still get to the end of EW. The spookiest level bracket would ironically be the 45-50 area, but even then, GNB gets Aurora there so... GNB from 1-50, swap your carry-tank to WAR as soon as it gets Raw Intuition at 54/56 (whichever it was). I'd test that theory but I don't feel like griefing randoms for the sake of experimentation

[ty_taurus]

See what I just said to Forsaken Roe my guy. All we're saying is you can brute force both games, and thats bad given the VAST differences because between them xD

I think there’s just some confusing between what you’re saying and what your main point is, at least for me.

[sindriiisgaming]

snip

the issue with the jobs is the combat system and lack of overworld playing. i dont wanna farm the same fight over and over with the same buttons over and over.