XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[Aravell]

Snip

Let me ask you this question then. Those advantages/disadvantages you listed, do they meaningfully change the way you play the job? Do you run out of telegraphs early because you find Shukuchi unwieldy? Do you ignore burst because you think SAM is a sustain damage job? Does any of those things change the way you approach that job in a way that makes you play differently from other jobs within the role? If it doesn't change anything meaningfully, then those are just aesthetics, there is no change to function.

You claim I'm parroting, I'm not, I know what I'm talking about. You claim MNK and NIN are different, they're not that different. MNK and NIN both follow the 60s/120s mini/full burst, they both press a combination of buttons to execute a stronger ability (Blitz/Mudra), they both have multiple charges of movement (Shukuchi/Thunderclap), they both have an upkeep buff (Disciplined Fist/Huton) and they both have a long CD defensive, the only major differences between them are that MNK has no ranged attack and NIN has no DoT. All these are functional things, it's how the job plays, and they play very similarly. And before you shoot back that MNK has a different combo system, how is their combo system functionally different from a 1-2-3?

Now let's look at them in PvP. They could not be more different. MNK is an aggressive brawler that can take out your backline if you're not careful, NIN is a ranged poke job that can dive in and burst you down when you're softened enough. Why are they able to function so distinctly in PvP but not in PvE?

[Supersnow845]

I still question why differential diagnosis exists, all it really does is just encourage people to ask for a form of shield deployment using Zoe on SGE which has always been SCH’s niche

SGE’s shield niche is the fact it gets 450 potency of true shields that don’t cost it any DPS to cast, SCH only get 250

[WaxSw]

Probably so a crit doesn't impact addersting generation much. Since the generation of resources is tied to the shield breaking if it worked like old Adlo then a crit would make it much harder to break and potentially stop the addersting generation. (It may still happen now but to a lesser extent).

Still whoever defends that Sch and Sge are completely different jobs clearly haven't played them much or at all

[Sani2341]

Sage has similar heals that are also free. The difference here is not the fairy - that's flavor.

Not solely.

The fact the fairy oGCDs originate from the fairy are a functional difference.
Not that I recall any fight this expac where that fact actually mattered, but it is there. Also the risk of ghosting or getting oGCDs delayed if the fairy is moving.

[Supersnow845]

Probably so a crit doesn't impact addersting generation much. Since the generation of resources is tied to the shield breaking if it worked like old Adlo then a crit would make it much harder to break and potentially stop the addersting generation. (It may still happen now but to a lesser extent).

Still whoever defends that Sch and Sge are completely different jobs clearly haven't played them much or at all

I mean why does SGE’s shields even have that chance to crit, it literally adds nothing to the class. Not the distinction between eukrasian and differential diagnosis

Not solely.

The fact the fairy oGCDs originate from the fairy are a functional difference.
Not that I recall any fight this expac where that fact actually mattered, but it is there. Also the risk of ghosting or getting oGCDs delayed if the fairy is moving.

It would be a useful difference if they didn’t compensate SGE with disgusting range on their heals, why on earth does pnuema and physis have a 30 yalm radius, It’s ironically harder to hit people with whispering dawn despite the fairy being a totem healer

[WaxSw]

I mean why does SGE’s shields even have that chance to crit, it literally adds nothing to the class. Not the distinction between eukrasian and differential diagnosis

You know why
I know why

[Aravell]

The fact the fairy oGCDs originate from the fairy are a functional difference.
Not that I recall any fight this expac where that fact actually mattered, but it is there. Also the risk of ghosting or getting oGCDs delayed if the fairy is moving.

P3S Fountain of Fire and Flames of Asphodelos (if not doing tank invuln), P8S P2 Natural Alignment (2 tiles) and High Concept. Those were where SCH's totem healing was helpful, not that it matters anymore now that Sacred Soil became Sacred Continent and Deployment Tactics can now deploy from here to Narnia.

[CelestiCer]

Question: " Does your favorite Job(s) give you the best Job-Gameplay experience in the current EW Expansion or even the current Patch 6.55 compared to another Patch or Expansion? "

Irregardless of Content / Fights / Mechanics, purely based on either the Job-Design and/or the experience you had on said Job in x patch or expansion or the current state of it in 6.55 EW. For me? Obviously no. But if I had to pick a patch where I believed my Job felt better to play? It would be EW 6.08 trumping whatever EW had going on for my Job before or after. Though for SHB it would be 5.4
( PS: irregardless is a word right? This auto-correct turning it red and google telling me another. English... DX< )

[Raikai]

So what would you suggest? They stop changing everything with each expansion? No more new spells? Keep everyone the same level so they don't have to rebalance everything? Genuinely asking.

They drop a new expansion and we're all still level 90. No new abilities because that requires that they remove old abilities which also angers everyone. If they add new abilities without removing or streamlining old abilities, console controllers will need 15 more buttons. BLM got really crazy with Enochian and Fire IV. That needed to be streamlined in order to add even more spells or it would have been too many buttons. You see that right?

So I ask again, what do you suggest with each new expansion? Zero new spells and nothing taken away and remain at the same level so everything can remain exciting and complex and balanced?

Or do you prefer a complete revamp with all new abilities and all new complexities each and every single time we get a new expansion? That way nothing gets "streamlined". You start out having to learn a whole new job even though you're still playing SAM. It's got to be one or the other or we just run out of buttons or face streamlining.

I still have never seen this question answered. What do you hope to see in a new expansion? All the same buttons or all completely new buttons? Old or new?

I quite agree here... It's the inevitable doom of a verticalized power level MMORPG. Happened a lot in WoW, for example. At some point, there's simply no room to add new 'toys', especially with the on-leash design that orbits the 2min meta - not only the jobs suffer from eventual design bloat, but there's also this second wall because there's only so much you can fit into the 15-20s of burst every 2 minutes. I'd say DNC is far from a button-bloated job, however I can't honestly think of what ever they can get in Dawntrail, given their Technical Step window is already at capacity of things to use there to the point that you might even end up with unused resources if RNG is good for you.

I'd say, under this vertical structure, FFXIV is terrible at future-proofing their job design, and honestly, the only solution I see is for them to get better at it so they can keep a good 'flow' of evolution for at least 2 or 3 expansions before having to rework stuff.

[TaleraRistain]

This game needs a proper Hall of the Novice that's equivalently maintained to keep up with current relevant mechanics but also each job's rotation and basic optimization techniques for each current patch.

I don't find the idea of an extended Hall of the Novice that bad, or some instances like the SGE/RPR instances that walked you through some key aspects of your job. But how would SE outline rotations? Rotations, while being something the community has number crunched, aren't located in the game. And what happens if SE did outline a rotation but it differed from what the community sites said it should be? Another challenge would be explaining *when* the rotation is important. There are basics you can get by with in more casual content that will keep things chugging along nicely and then fine-tuned optimizations that are needed in more endgame content. And they tend to leave those fine-tuned discussions among the community. And there's the concern that if players are required to go through this instance and hit this specific rotation and can't then that could make the game feel less accessible. And I really don't think they want XIV to get that sort of reputation.