XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

[SargeTheSeagull]

Maybe a take, but I'm kind of okay with jobs being somewhat simple -- at a glance, BUT I do want them to have more moving parts, and job mechanics that afford surprising interactions between actions. I think RDM is a good example 'simple on the surface, but has a lot of moving parts.' Like on the surface it's just 'cast spells, get gauge to use on melee combo,' but that's not mentioning dual cast, that it's two gauges that need to be filled at roughly the same rate, wanting to maintain a slight imbalance between gauges to force spell procs, the random spell procs, its movement abilities requiring an enemy to target and one of them being a backflip. It's that easy to learn, but fun, and challenging to master that all jobs should aspire to. All jobs need good 'buts' in their design.

Well said. I don't mind simple, I do mind shallow. Almost every job in 14 has been made shallow over the last two expansions and that NEEDS to change.

[BeserkFury]

It's almost as if going through the process of cutting damage rotation complexity down by about 30%(Positional adjustments and various quality of life + removal of TP and introduction of AoE rotation), making healing irrelevant via OGCD bloat and tank self healing and ripping away almost all tank responsibility (threat control, boss positioning, boss stun/silence interrupts) was not the direction the game should go in.

SIMPLIFICATION is not REMOVAL, you can make a mechanic easier to deal with via QoL in a way that doesnt involve removing it entirely. Whats next? Remove MP for healers for the same reason TP was removed?, How about we just make it so the monsters instantly target the tank as soon as they enter line of sight the tank is going to get aggro anyway so just cut out the middleman there.

How "Accessible" does the game need to become before the team stops removing core mechanics from the combat, might as well rebrand XIV as a mobile autobattler game.

[aiqa]

Statistics show the mechanically simpler jobs used the most, regardless if those happen to be top performing jobs or far behind. So apparently people enjoy those.

[SargeTheSeagull]

Statistics show the mechanically simpler jobs used the most, regardless if those happen to be top performing jobs or far behind. So apparently people enjoy those.

Oh well if the numbers say something then what are we even arguing about, right people? You know, numerically, the most nutrient dense food there is would be beef liver. I say we make it so that everyone, everywhere, can only eat beef liver all the time. Maybe we'll even let people add salt or pepper if they're DESPEREATE for variety. But who needs variety? We have beef liver!

[Aravell]

If jobs are so homogenized, then why do I find some enjoyable, and others I do not?

Many people use this statement to try and prove that every job is still unique, but this statement us flawed. If I give you a choice between 4 identical desk mats, one blue, one green, one red and one yellow, you'd definitely have a preference, despite all of the choices being identical desk mats.

People can prefer a job because of aesthetics, but that doesn't change the fact that some jobs play almost identically. Like how the burst profile of MNK and NIN is very close to the same, or how you can play SCH and SGE by using all the similar buttons in the same order.

[CelestiCer]

Statistics show the mechanically simpler jobs used the most, regardless if those happen to be top performing jobs or far behind. So apparently people enjoy those.

Can't really argue with your flawless take on the statistics. I guess this is peak Job-Gameplay! It cannot improve whatsoever, great job Square big obviously. It was never better and this the most enjoyable it can ever get, ever ( also big obviously ). Malefic / Broil / Glare / Dosis spammage = Peak XIV Healer Job design oki doki... mhm mhm ( big nods ) Now the only thing left to do is pick that lovely Healer job and" Just go play Ultimate " as Yoshi-P intended

[mallleable]

Many people use this statement to try and prove that every job is still unique, but this statement us flawed. If I give you a choice between 4 identical desk mats, one blue, one green, one red and one yellow, you'd definitely have a preference, despite all of the choices being identical desk mats.

People can prefer a job because of aesthetics, but that doesn't change the fact that some jobs play almost identically. Like how the burst profile of MNK and NIN is very close to the same, or how you can play SCH and SGE by using all the similar buttons in the same order.

You're not completely wrong, but aesthetics are absolutely important though. They're why Inner Release works, and Delirium does not. Game design very much requires artistic problem solving as it does engineering problem solving.

[Gemina]

Many people use this statement to try and prove that every job is still unique, but this statement us flawed. If I give you a choice between 4 identical desk mats, one blue, one green, one red and one yellow, you'd definitely have a preference, despite all of the choices being identical desk mats.

People can prefer a job because of aesthetics, but that doesn't change the fact that some jobs play almost identically. Like how the burst profile of MNK and NIN is very close to the same, or how you can play SCH and SGE by using all the similar buttons in the same order.

I'll tell you what. How about I mention some unique advantages/disadvantages the jobs I enjoy bring? I'll also do it without using metaphors, which should only be used to facilitate expression, not establishing a point.

NIN: The most magically based DPS job that is not a caster. Magical damage is calculated differently than physical attacks. No other job has anything like the mudra system, nor does any melee job have the ranged offensive capability as NIN. Forcing them out of melee range doesn't slow them down one bit.
Disadvantages involve being the weakest defensively out of the melee jobs. Shade Shift is on a long cooldown. Shakuchi requires a lot of skill to pull off, resulting in still taking the hit anyway. Still a great mobility tool.

MNK: It is the most flexible of the melee jobs, able to shift in and out of ST/AoE at any point in their rotation. It has the most self-sustain out of any DPS job. Bloodbath + wind is a respectable regen that can be combined with Earth's mitigation along with their already high defensive stat.
Weakness involves next to no ranged ability outside enlightenment, which still requires the total expenditure of their secondary resource. Lacks ogcds, but could be seen as a positive due to their speed trait lowering their GCD.

SAM: lives outside the 2-minute meta and instead focuses on sustained DPS resulting in the only job outside BLM that isn't a pump n dump of nearly their entire kit. The job continues right where it left off after boss transitions.
Weakness involves a lackluster resource spender with the kenki gauge. EW changes to this and loss of Kaiten and Seigan as spenders really hurt this job.

DRG: The only job in the game with combo extensions, which also increases the margin for error. Blood of the Dragon is unique in the sense that instead of building a gauge towards a big spender, it is instead unlocked and the DRG is granted access to their most powerful abilities as long as it is active and they are off CD. This includes Stardiver, which in my opinion is the most beautiful and satisfying skill to use in the entire game.
Weakness involves having zero ability to mitigate incoming damage. Their rotation is very fixed with no variation or flexibility. Lol DRG is still a thing.

SCH: Their fairy to this very day still provides some of the most useful utility in the game with sustained heals that does not result in a DPS loss to the SCH. Much of their utility involves combining their skills for increased effectiveness. Expedient started as the biggest meme of EW and turned out to be so strong it needed to be nerfed. It is the only healer with a reliable movement DPS skill in Ruin 2.
Weakness involves a ton of jank and loss of being the healer with access to the most offensive skills throughout the expansions. It's the only healer without a strong bounce back ability like macrocosmos, pnuema, and bell.

WHM: It's gimmick is being the only healer without a niche. But this healer is so baseline, that it serves as the blueprint for all the other healers in the game. It does have Misery, benediction, and cure 3. It can be argued that Misery is a DPS return skill, and the other two mentions are overkill in most situations. Be that as they may, these are still skills unique to WHM and they are fun to use.
Weakness is lack of offensive raid utility and poor mitigation. They also don't have a reliable offensive movement skill. SCH has ruin 2, SGE can build stacks of toxicon, and AST can hold on to lord until needed. WHM has nothing outside clipping Dia and Misery.

I could go on, but I don't have extensive experience with tanks, casters, and ranged DPS other than DNC, but I'm certain I can find things unique about these jobs as well. Jobs like RDM and SMN I don't like because they don't fit my playstyle. It's far easier to just say all jobs play the same and there is nothing unique about them. I find such statements to be parroting, especially when there is nothing being said to elaborate on why a player feels as such. Just say what everyone else is saying and rake in those sweet, sweet likes.

You did mention MNK and NIN having the same burst profile, but I don't find their burst phases to be close in even the slightest. NIN is FAR more complicated than MNK due to mudra inputs and ogcd weaving. As for SGE and SCH I have played both jobs extensively up through EX/unreal (this is as far as I go). While the skillsets seem identical on paper, these two jobs absolutely do not play, nor feel the same. SGE is unique in having their addersting resource built up by having their shields break. No other healer has that, including SCH. They also have to pay attention to burst windows as it is the most opportune time to use phelgma. They also have to pay attention to this skill so it does not overcap.

[Sani2341]

Sage has similar heals that are also free. The difference here is not the fairy - that's flavor.

Not solely.

The fact the fairy oGCDs originate from the fairy are a functional difference.
Not that I recall any fight this expac where that fact actually mattered, but it is there. Also the risk of ghosting or getting oGCDs delayed if the fairy is moving.