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  1. #1
    Player
    thedude28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Cosette Coalhearth
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100

    Sidereal Whale is genuinely awful

    Fishing is generally a "fun" activity when the RNG hits just right, but when the chips and the entire house are against you, it is outright torture.

    Such is the case with Sidereal Whale, which is one of the worst legendary fish to catch in the entire game. Every aspect about it is genuinely awful to play around.
    • Is only available after a rarest of rare weather changes. If you miss a window, it can take up to two weeks (or more) before you get another chance.
    • Requires intuition, meaning you need to fulfill prerequisites just to even get a chance at catching the fish
    • Intuition requires Phallaina, an exceptionally profitable yet exceedingly rare fish
    • Is a mooch fish in a pool that lets you get 3-10 mooch attempts per 10 minutes
    • Phallaina is also a fish that comes from Mooch.

    To compensate, the game decides it's "fair" by offering 20 minute windows to Sidereal Whale with a 10 minute intuition buff. This means if you catch a Phallaina at the tail end of its window, you still get a full 10 minute chance at catching Sidereal Whale.

    Whoever designed this fish is genuinely evil. There is no other way to describe them. They actively push the extremes of RNG and don't care how much the players end up suffering because of bad RNG. The players DO suffer, because they can end up waking up at ungodly hours just for a CHANCE to catch the fish, and then someone else shows up and catches it on their first try.

    Fishing, by design, is cruel and unfair. It absolves itself of all criticism because it's literally an irrelevant RNG casino. But just like a casino, it keeps those who are addicted keep coming back for more because they don't want to be a loser at the end of the day.

    I can only wish for this fish to get nerfed and future legendary fish to not require so many stupid layers of unnecessary RNG. But because this is criticism for an activity the devs don't care about having fun in, it's all moot in the first place and I look like a lunatic for having awful RNG.

    The melancholy doesn't fade as fast as it comes. It stacks with every consecutive failure, every missed bite. It is definitive proof that the FFXIV fishing gods are inherently evil who want you to suffer before having fun.
    (14)

  2. #2
    Player
    Tint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the right-hand attic
    Posts
    4,325
    Character
    Karuru Karu
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    I agree.

    Catching Phallaina alone took me weeks >.>

    At least they should remove these legendary fish from the normal big fish achievments. They are all awful with too much RNG. Normal big fish are fun, the legendary fish are just frustrating. But because they are all moved into the same achievment you don't get your reward when you don't catch all of them - which makes fishing for the normal big fish feel pointless and of course - unrewarding - when you don't plan to waste your time in the legendary ones.

    Back in ARR you didn't have to catch the 6 legendary fish to get the last big fish achievment. And the legendary fish had their own achievment and title. Can we go back there please?

    And please give the legendary fish a blue background on the icon when we are at it - they are clearly a different tier of fish and should be marked as such.
    (5)
    It’s a good thing not to answer your enemies. I scarcely ever do. Perhaps Emily is more like me than I am like myself. Perhaps she would rather not answer her friends, even. She keeps it all in her heart.

  3. #3
    Player
    VictorSpoils's Avatar
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    Mar 2022
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    898
    Character
    Victor Spoils
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Two questions: 1) Is it still easier than Ruby and 2) will it be easier to catch in 1-2 expansions like every other big fish? If yes to either, I will reserve my fears.
    (0)
    Last edited by VictorSpoils; 02-05-2024 at 04:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Player Astrahime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2023
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    174
    Character
    Eirika Zenbi-ryoshi
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by VictorSpoils View Post
    Two questions: is ruby harder and will this be easier later
    Let's compare the 2 fish with crowdsourced data.
    1: Uptime.
    Ruby: 0.3% uptime
    Sidereal: 0.5% uptime
    - Their windows are about as common as each other, Sider just has longer uptime due to having the full 0-8. In practice they're equal because Phallaina, the fish that gives you the intuition, is 0-4.

    2: Mooching
    Ruby: According to Teamcraft, a Ku'er mooch has a 74% chance to be another Ku'er, a 2% chance to be the Dragon, and a 24% chance to slip. Blue Bobbits, the bait used to get a Ku'er, allegedly have a 62% chance to slip, though this might be inflated due to players not reeling in non-!!! bites.
    Sidereal: Again according to Teamcraft, a Horizon Event mooch has a 31% chance to be a Triana (Which has led to people in the fishing community making a meme out of it), a 35% chance to be an Unbegotten, and a 4% chance to be the Phallaina that people need. This is in addition to the 30% chance to not get anything, but this is again probably inflated due to players not reeling in the bite that they know isn't the Phallaina. There isn't enough data on Whale's bite rate yet for me to pass judgement on this.
    The highest chance to hook in a Horizon Event is with Stardust, at roughly 22.2%, adding another layer of RNG onto this.
    - This is comparing 2 completely different things.

    3: Preparation
    Ruby: It's pretty simple to set up 10 Angler's Art stacks half an hour before the window, then slap a Coeurl Snake Eel, use Patience II, and try to moochloop till you get the Dragon, using Makeshift Bait if you currently have a Ku'er on your hook and Patience has worn off.
    Sidereal: Show up 12 hours early and try to get Phallaina. Try again in the next window. Try again in the next window. Try again in the next window. Try again in the next window. Cry. Actually get Phallaina this time and realise that you need to stay in this area for the next 4 hours. Get the 2 Unbegotten if you didn't get them already, and 2 of the 3 EBEs. (Anyone who tells you that it's impossible to get Phallaina without catching the 3 EBEs early is bad at fishing and doesn't own a stopwatch.) Get the rest of your AA stacks if you still need to by hooking up ! bites or !! bites you know aren't EBE due to how long it took for it to bite. Stop fishing so that you don't hit Amiss. Play another game while you wait for the window to show up. When the window starts, hook up an EBE, then immediately Surface Slap it and use Patience II. Hook up the !! bites you know can be Horizon Event and hook in the !!! bites you think are Sidereal, using your Hi-Cordials or AA stacks on Makeshift Bait so that you can have a 100% mooch-able uptime. If you want to make the chance even higher, start around 3:30 ET instead of 0 ET so that you can't be jumpscared by the Phallaina that you didn't catch 12 hours ago.
    - Sidereal is harder.
    (1/2)
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player Astrahime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2023
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    174
    Character
    Eirika Zenbi-ryoshi
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Astrahime View Post
    (1/2), sorry for editing your quote because this is 5+k characters total
    4: Can it be made easier?
    Ruby: Makeshift Bait got added. While Fish Eyes did get reworked, it doesn't affect Legendary Fish and Jailing with a Ku'er is both downright insane and won't help you due to Amiss.
    Sidereal: If they make Fish Eyes work on ShB or EW fish, Jailing with a Phallaina will be extremely expensive outside of its window, but still possible. (This would have the side effect of making a lot of ShB/EW Big Fish easier, and make Ronka the easiest Legendary Fish ever by removing the difficulty of catching both the Priest and the Serpent in the same window. Yes, this is possible as-is if you get the Priest at the end of the window and wait till 10 ET again because Amiss isn't triggered on Mooches, but this would make it so that you can set it up whenever.) This might affect EW fish in 8.0 if they decide to make Fish Eyes "No time needed for current expansion -2 fish".
    Another way they can make this easier would be to make Surface Slap have 2 stacks when used, making it so that it's possible to use on Mooched fish and thus making it so that you can't get the same Mooch twice in a row. This would both make getting the intuition (By being able to slap the Triana), and the Whale itself (Again by slapping the Triana) easier. (This wouldn't make Ruby easier unless they make it so that you can slap 2 different fish, or remove the part of Surface Slap that prevents you from mooching after slapping.)
    - Sidereal would require a complete rework of a skill to be made easier rather than the simple addition of a new class trait.

    Given that several people are jailing for this, maybe it'd be better to compare it to a fish that requires Big or extremely rare fish for its intuition. Shadowbringers has the Aquamaton which needs the Shadeshifter, and Lancetfish who is the reason why "Jailing" is even a term in the first place. Stormblood has the Drepanaspis, but it has a much higher uptime. ARR has the Namitaro which requires switching baits and has the second lowest Intuition duration of any Big Fish, and was the lowest prior to 6.55. Sidereal is still harder than all of these.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Toukichiful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    82
    Character
    Kon Kichi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    The problem is Phallaina, I know multiple people including myself going to the Sidereal Whale window 3 hours before to try multiple attempts to even get the Intuition. Or people are trying to catch Phallaina the night before to log in in the morning just for a chance at Sidereal Whale. Phallaina is the real problem with going for Sidereal Whale. I assume people hope they would stop making Big legendary fish that would require as fishers call it "jailing" where you have to sit in the zone multiple hours before hand to even get a Intuition.
    (9)

  7. #7
    Player
    fulminating's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
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    1,176
    Character
    Wind-up Everyone
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 52
    Who looked at steth or lancet and thought "I can make this worse"?
    6 hours in the worst zone in the game not able to do anything useful, just for 3 chances that were all 30s unbegotten because horizon won't get on the damn hook.
    If there was a decent bait for horizon it wouldn't be as terrible. If Phalliana wasn't such a pain it'd be better, if whale actually bit with a reasonable frequency it'd not be as terrible.
    (10)

  8. #8
    Player
    thedude28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Cosette Coalhearth
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by VictorSpoils View Post
    Two questions: 1) Is it still easier than Ruby and 2) will it be easier to catch in 1-2 expansions like every other big fish? If yes to either, I will reserve my fears.
    I would argue that Ruby pre-SHB is easier than this because you have less layers of incessantly awful RNG to go through. You simply have to catch Ku-er and pray your mooch goes through.

    With regards to Sidereal Whale, it encompasses every awful RNG layer known to fishing thus far. It can't get any worse than this as any change to any aspect would be a considerable difference. And the game actively mocks your bad RNG with the intuition text itself.

    I'm going to my 10th Phallaina window in a row and having over 50+ mooch attempts. The only mercy is that if I can catch just one Phallaina, I can be ready for tomorrow's Whale window. But if I fail to catch either Phallaina or the Whale tomorrow, it disappears for two weeks.

    The devs who thought this was fun would rather turn fishing into a club of masochistic unhealthy discussions at this rate. And we'll still come back for more, right? Because fishing is fun, right guys? Just ignore the amount of havoc I caused in my own house because of bad fish RNG. Video games don't cause violence, but they are a leading cause of increased unbridled aggression.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player
    Hasrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    3,288
    Character
    Hashmael Lightswain
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    I mean... pretty much every other EW fish was pretty bog standard unremarkable. Had to balance that somewhere.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    thedude28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Cosette Coalhearth
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasrat View Post
    I mean... pretty much every other EW fish was pretty bog standard unremarkable. Had to balance that somewhere.
    "Hmmm... Yes... Fish RNG needs to remain balanced with one end being remarkably unremarkable and the other end being absolutely dreadful"

    What an absolutely dogwater justification for something that is legitimately awful in every aspect. It's almost if you're implying that fishing criticism should NEVER matter!!!

    I'm on my 13th dry Phallaina window, surely close to reaching 100+ mooch attempts. And then people like you are going to walk up and RNG better than me like it's nothing. It's just bad luck, right? It's my fault that I'm not spending more than one day on a SINGLE FISH just to prep for ANOTHER SINGLE FISH, right?!

    I don't want to hear it. People like you piss me off.
    (9)
    Last edited by thedude28; 02-05-2024 at 02:59 PM.

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