Summoner: if summoner is the first new class to be released what would you expect?

[Churchill]

I don't follow, you can beat any current content with any tank/healer/dd setup you want if you aren't terrible

[Duelle]

I don't follow, you can beat any current content with any tank/healer/dd setup you want if you aren't terrible

Ranged still has an advantage over melee. That one still needs to be addressed.

Diversity of abilities. For example in FFXI you have Buffs (Garuda, Fenrir), Healing (Carbuncle), DD (Titan, Ifrit etc)

Balance. I am afraid it will be OP, then shafted with the nerf stick.

Depends. Tanaka & Co. were scared to death of summoners in FFXI because they never placed heavier restrictions on things like switching avatars. They tried to discourage it with summon MP costs and variances in perpetuation and then favors, but the playerbase is very thick-headed and never picked up on it. If you make it really painful to switch avatars, you suddenly don't have to nerf everything out of fear that players will swap avatars faster than they change underwear. I'd use something like the mechanic for Terestian Illhoof, but with player-character detriments instead of just taking more damage.

Say that Evokers can keep their avatar out without having to pay perpetuation, and instead spend MP to use avatar abilities as well as abilities they gain from the presence of their avatars. The avatar dies, and the Evoker gets hit by a debuff called Broken Pact that prevents the summoning of another avatar for 3 minutes and reduces all stats by 25%. Dismissing the avatar and trying to summon again within 60 seconds also grants this debuff.

Then at lv30 when you get the Summoner crystal, your first learned ability is Natural Order, an ability that allows Summoners to switch avatars without penalties once every 3 minutes, but it HAS to be an avatar that follows the elemental cycle of the previous avatar (so if you have Phoenix out, you'd have to switch to Shiva as the elemental triat goes from Wind => Fire => Ice). You can justify making avatar abilities stronger across the board under such design, IMO.

[KoujiGeki]

Ranged still has an advantage over melee. That one still needs to be addressed.

Depends. Tanaka & Co. were scared to death of summoners in FFXI because they never placed heavier restrictions on things like switching avatars. They tried to discourage it with summon MP costs and variances in perpetuation and then favors, but the playerbase is very thick-headed and never picked up on it. If you make it really painful to switch avatars, you suddenly don't have to nerf everything out of fear that players will swap avatars faster than they change underwear. I'd use something like the mechanic for Terestian Illhoof, but with player-character detriments instead of just taking more damage.

Say that Evokers can keep their avatar out without having to pay perpetuation, and instead spend MP to use avatar abilities as well as abilities they gain from the presence of their avatars. The avatar dies, and the Evoker gets hit by a debuff called Broken Pact that prevents the summoning of another avatar for 3 minutes and reduces all stats by 25%. Dismissing the avatar and trying to summon again within 60 seconds also grants this debuff.

Then at lv30 when you get the Summoner crystal, your first learned ability is Natural Order, an ability that allows Summoners to switch avatars without penalties once every 3 minutes. You can justify making avatar abilities stronger across the board under such design, IMO.

There are a few problems with what you said here. Well that WAS a huge problem in 11 for the longest time for summoners, reducing them to only main healer, and almost never actually summoning. I can slighty agree to the not being able to switch Primals once fight starts, BUT if its also includes when they die from AoEs which lets face it they WILL, that will severely hurt Summoners. Cause lets imagine im an elitist, Oh you cant resummon for 3 min?, thats 3 min of no damage, or we get a pet with weakness for 3 min if im reading what you are saying right. Well F*%& summoner get the Blm.

I am in favor of the No perpetual cause, and the more mp to do abilities just not a crippling amount, but it would even out if the cost of summoning was a decent amount to, back to the aoe problem if its alot your gonna got out of mp after your pet dies 3x. So a Summoner should IMO have a refresh even with a Summon out.

[Duelle]

I can slighty agree to the not being able to switch Primals once fight starts, BUT if its also includes when they die from AoEs which lets face it they WILL, that will severely hurt Summoners.

Oh, right, I'm thinking in WoW context without really explaining how pet classes in WoW worked. All pets scaled with their master's stats, and also all had inherent damage reduction (I think it was 80%) taken from AoEs. If a pet was dying during a raid fight, it was because it was pulling aggro and the guy playing the hunter/warlock was an idiot that forgot to turn off growl/torment. I'd expect a similar mechanic here, where Avatars would scale with their SMNs stats and also have an inherent mechanic that reduces damage they take from AoEs. Then the game becames about using and focusing on an avatar and, most importantly, keeping the avatar alive.

I am in favor of the No perpetual cause, and the more mp to do abilities just not a crippling amount, but it would even out if the cost of summoning was a decent amount to, back to the aoe problem if its alot your gonna got out of mp after your pet dies 3x. So a Summoner should IMO have a refresh even with a Summon out.

Believe me, I'd hate to place such a restriction on SMNs, but I also know that people who graduated from FFXI will try to twist every mechanic they can, and in order to deter it I can't think of something less than a direct kick in the balls to those players.

On refresh, without a doubt it should be and is shared by the caster classes/jobs, so I don't see why Evoker/SMN shouldn't have it as well.