There definatly have been miscommunications, but still you stand by issues I've already countered and addressed.

Quote Originally Posted by DarthTaru View Post
Hyrist:
I have first hand experience with precisely what the difference was and that difference was precisely what I said it was - motivation.
I've had both hardcore and casual experience both in and without of FFXI. (Was a top Guild member in Aion for a while. EQ beforehand.) And I understand what you are saying about motivation being a major factor here. But that factor cannot be be isolated as the primary reason. Your experience may vary. But to make a metaphoric statement there is only so many times you can get kicked in the gut before the fight is kicked out of you.

Morale, is the term I am looking for. You cannot maintain motivation in a hostile environment with low morale.


And I do believe that some of your stated reasons for not wanting open world HNMs are overly self centered.
You don't want open world HNMs because you don't want to camp them and because you don't want to compete for them and because all of this they shouldn't be in the game despite the fact that, in an endgame linkshell large enough and organized enough to routinely kill HNMs, you don't always have to be.
Mmm. There you go again with that accusatory tone. I'm not sure you're aware of it, but you're doing it.

No, not me. It's not that I don't want to camp. I'm just as content leaving that entire branch of the game alone in FFXIV as I was after I got burned in both FFXI and Aion. (Aion was worse, in some cases, btw.) My acertion is that nobody should have to go through that. That it appeals to too narrow of a group without modifications to be productive content. And even your regulars for years on that complained over multiple issues that, in this game, should be addressed before implementation.

But to stress - this is an academical discussion. Where the true numbers lie as to what number desires what and what SE should go for ultimately should be in SEs hands to ask in a survey. Don't try to construed the argument. I can just easily say 'you' don't want any changes because 'you' have rose tinted views of being on top and 'you' want to impose your goals for prestige on the group and anything short won't be good for 'anyone'?

My argument isn't selfish it's my bias. I believe more open content will result in a healthier game. That does not mean you will always get claim every 8 hours just because it's spawned that frequently. That was just one idea among many that would provide a deeper, yet rich enviroment.

The Great Buffalo's of the world have to be farmed. The biggest, baddest, rarest of the HNMs in XI had to be conquered.
Ok, there's some issue here in communicating what means 'biggest, baddest'.

AV and PW were the biggest, baddest. They had to be conquered. The tier below, challenging that they were, still had to be farmed.

Fafnir, Nidhog, Tiamat, etc. these guy weren't the biggest and baddest. They were ultimately farmed like the rest. Hunted relentlessly for their drops, not their challenge. They were the prey of the strong, even though they ate the weak.

Dynamis Lord, Kirin when he first came out, Chariots when they came out. Odin, Bahamut These were guys that had to be Conquered in there day. Ground Kings? They were hard, yeah but they felt more like 'big game' than "Big Boss."

We've not touched very much on the concept of HQ spawns. And 8 hour HNM with an HQ that spawns perhaps only a few times a week isn't beyond my purview of good mechanics. It could function like AV on Jailor of Love does in that respect. (We can disagree that 8 hours isn't sufficiently long enough wait for you I'll stand by my idea that any more of rotating shifts or waiting around to do nothing during that time is a bad game mechanic, even in an MMO field, like how a 12 hour PW fight is a bad mechanic.)


We seem to be stuck on the tip of the iceburg when it comes to the depth of this subject matter.

Our difference in opinion shouldn't really matter. So long as SE keeps the player's interested we can debate buzzwords for years and it wouldn't matter a lick.



But I'm done bouncing the same topic back and forth on the same thing. It does nothing for the conversation. I'm not here to convince you, and I don't begrudge you your views. But I don't agree the HNM system should be left as it was conceived of in FFXI. This simply is not that game, it is its own - it should improve upon it.

Let's talk more about HNMs in general. Ground kings, stood around and waited to be pegged. Tiamat could appear in difference places. Ixion had to be chased down. Sandworm brought YOU to the fight once you found him. What are some more ways we could keep the hunting of these HNMs unique - barring the conversation of things like pop times. What sort of things in an open world fight you would like to see?

If I were to partake, I wouldn't mind the idea of an actual 'hunt'. You pursue your target, it fights, as it gets weaker, it's got a chance to bolt on you and you've got to chase it back down. Or have a monster make a tactical retreat to lead you into an ambush.

There is a lot that could be done to add to the excitement and depth of the HNM system.