Can we get an idea on what to expect from the open world in version 2? (A bit long)

[Jynx]

Dosen't have to be instanced if you can keep the botters and hoggers at bay.

It's as easy as making the items unsellable, sure there will be a bit of bickering when content is first released and a few shells trying to "Sell kills" 24-48 hour respawns? Yeah I agree get that out of here, but I'd still love to see world NM's that people fight in the open, hell make them a force spawn of sorts and only let one be up at a time.

AKA: Do a quest in the zone to trigger the mob spawn and let it spawn claimed to your group, if he is currently up just wait until the guy is dead and it's your turn. Again it would be crowded for a bit but it's no different than being locked-out of the garuda fight.

Hell make the NM spawn on his own on some sort of set timer so that once the content has dried up the monster still exists within the zone even if he isn't always summoned but give players a means to summon him on demand.

[Shurrikhan]

This quote, I already included in another post of mine, but that was buried on dead-leg of a long thread, and I think it deserves to be read, as does the entire blog entry from which it comes. R

Thanks a bunch for this link. I think this is the first time I've generally agreed with a single blog poster this much, and almost everything he mentions in his good hopes for EQ3 could just as much apply to FFXIV. And I'd like to see that happen.

[Rutelor]

Thanks a bunch for this link. I think this is the first time I've generally agreed with a single blog poster this much, and almost everything he mentions in his good hopes for EQ3 could just as much apply to FFXIV. And I'd like to see that happen.

You're welcome. I'm really psyched that the 17 words and the blog entry have resonated with people the way they have, not only on this thread, but in plenty of private messages and conversations in my world. I think they condense plenty of what unites people that, like me, started with EQ, moved on to DAoC, then FFXI, and became suddenly aware that we were living a golden age of sorts. Alas, it was soon to be over. Here's my full glass to the dream that FFXIV v. 2.0 (and perhaps, why not, EQ 3) brings us the Renaissance.

R

[Rutelor]

All I can say in brief is - All things in balance.

To feel Danger, you must also have places that feel Safe.
For Risk, there must be proper reward.
For Survival, there must be a Thrill to test fate again.
Freedom must be tempered by the slightest hint of Guidence.
For every Mystery, there must be Substance to support it.
Fantasy itself must be rooted in enough Familiarity that we may lose ourself in it.
For every bit of Discovery, there must be Continuity so we may piece the puzzels together.
For Camaraderi to work, there must be some Investment on the personal level for every player.
For Community to function, there must be a feeling of Family within that bubble.
For the feeling of Escape to work, there has to be a helping of Fear instilled.
And whether in Victory or Defeat, there needs to be an overaching feeling of Pourpose that guides the later into the former.
For Gains and Losses, must be balanced against one another so that the player finds meaning in Progress, instead of just feeling futile or feeling pandered.
Skill and Excellence will vary from person to person, but to gain either, one must first be allowed to gain Experience, and not the kind given in a numeral value.
All of these given and balanced in kind and Excitement will flow throughout, but never forget that for the moments of exictment, just also be tempered by Reflection, so that we remember to charish the time we spend in this shared world.

Huh, I did manage to get it out before going home...

I pretty much agree with this antiphon, Hyrist, much of it being obvious. I've never advocated for the type of relentless danger, or non-ending risk your litany seems to imply. What you fail to state, if I may respectfully point out, is where exactly you think the game finds itself today within the polar spectrum you draw, for each one of those lines.

It feels almost as though you might be saying, even though it's not clear, that I'm misguided in bringing up the bit with the 17 words, because any of those would throw the game out of some balance you think it possesses right now. What I imply, of course, and on the contrary to this, is that the game finds itself lacking in most of these aspects, and therefore is in disbalance right now. Evidently a matter of opinions, worthy both to be voiced.

R

[DarthTaru]

Awesome blog. You and I are of the same mind, my friend.
I unfortunately never played EverQuest but i'm sure I would of loved it.
I started MMO's with FFXI and anything less than a brutal and unforgiving world that exists despite the player just won't do for me anymore.

Going to be passing your blog on to many of my likeminded friends.

[Eekiki]

I'm loving all the people speaking up about this!~

I just wish they'd keep it to a single thread.

[Hyrist]

Actually Ruetlor. While I would normally agree with you that some of the things that I have listed should be obvious and easily completed, my experience within video games has taught me never to assume such for the sake of the content itself will be at risk if you do not mention it.

I'd also like to assert, as a manner of opinion, that a lot of what we have in the game meets some of those issues, but does not contain it's balancing factors, and therefore, the virtue is not seen as a benefit, or is simply overlooked due to not being substantial enough.

I think other linkshells should just get better at organizing themselves and claiming instead of implementing some sort of HNM affirmative action designed to hinder the most effective endgame linkshells...

Funny how eight years ago a linkshell used that exact same excuse while using a third party program they ultimately sold to RMT companies for grand after years of 'being better at claiming'.

Given the history of Ground Kings, there's absolutely no way I'll respect such a claim like the one you just made, and saying as much makes you suspect, in my eyes.

'The claim for fame' system is toxic and heavily encourages bots, grief tactics, etc. The Rare EX or our U/U system only works now when the item had plentiful alternatives, and never worked for HNMs that had a monopoly on certain bests in slot. If the system really worked, Ground Kings wouldn't be force pop today.

I am already predicting a backlash for the manner Avatars will be claimed for Free Company use, we don't need to add more fuel to that fire. However, if they're inteligent and make HNM drops side-grades to other items obtained through different means (So that there is a selection of items to obtain rather than a single best in slot.) Then it's possible to keep a system like Sandworm or other, roaming HNM systems in place. However at the very least stationary ones should have a measure of abuse control applied.

[DarthTaru]

Actually Ruetlor. While I would normally agree with you that some of the things that I have listed should be obvious and easily completed, my experience within video games has taught me never to assume such for the sake of the content itself will be at risk if you do not mention it.

I'd also like to assert, as a manner of opinion, that a lot of what we have in the game meets some of those issues, but does not contain it's balancing factors, and therefore, the virtue is not seen as a benefit, or is simply overlooked due to not being substantial enough.



Funny how eight years ago a linkshell used that exact same excuse while using a third party program they ultimately sold to RMT companies for grand after years of 'being better at claiming'.

Given the history of Ground Kings, there's absolutely no way I'll respect such a claim like the one you just made, and saying as much makes you suspect, in my eyes.

'The claim for fame' system is toxic and heavily encourages bots, grief tactics, etc. The Rare EX or our U/U system only works now when the item had plentiful alternatives, and never worked for HNMs that had a monopoly on certain bests in slot. If the system really worked, Ground Kings wouldn't be force pop today.

I am already predicting a backlash for the manner Avatars will be claimed for Free Company use, we don't need to add more fuel to that fire. However, if they're inteligent and make HNM drops side-grades to other items obtained through different means (So that there is a selection of items to obtain rather than a single best in slot.) Then it's possible to keep a system like Sandworm or other, roaming HNM systems in place. However at the very least stationary ones should have a measure of abuse control applied.

I just don't have the same hysteria over bots that other people do. My HNM linkshell didn't use bots in XI and we did fine. We lost a lot of Dragon's Aery claims but got the majority of Tiamat and Cerb for at least a year stretch. Honestly, I just think a lot (not all) of the people with an over the top bot phobia just really sucked at claiming. Actually, I suspect they just sucked at killing.

I think back to my days spent in XI and remember most of the most vocal players on this issue were people from linkshells who never even went to HNM camps and wouldn't have been able to kill them if they had. It wasn't that all of them were horrible. They were just unmotivated and since an HNM claim wouldn't fall into their laps wrapped in a bow they only wanted to blame bots. This is my personal experience so when I see all of these people here with what I think are irrational claims about bots I am forced to draw the same conclusions.

The honest truth of the matter is I would rather have to suffer and work against bots than play in an instanced WoW clone. My linkshell is very capable. We have very capable players. We're also small, some of us have conflicting play times, sometimes we find ourselves stuck at 7/8 until very late at night, sometimes we've had to fight Ifrit Extreme with mules in party until an 8th arrives, and a signification portion of our LS list will be inactive until 2.0. We're also on Aegis.

There are Japanese linkshells on Aegis with great skill and they also have seemingly ten times our numbers without, it seems, any great sacrifice in the over all quality of their LS. Were 2.0 to launch tomorrow with all the open world content I want to see, my linkshell and the 2 or 3 other capable NA endgame linkshells (with similar size and structure as our own) would get absolutely steamrolled on claim. That doesn't matter to me. That's a challenge and a struggle i'm willing to brave and ultimately overcome because that is the game I want to play. If we're overwhelmed at first by these emerging JP juggernauts I won't be coming to the forums to whine and cry about the open world system. We'll simply scrap for what we can get, grow our LS, and make sure we get our slice of the pie.

We'll rise to whatever occasion we have to. We overcome the game. We don't let the game overcome us. That's why we want open world. Myself and everyone else in this thread. That and a thousand other reasons.

I would rather have to fight for every crumb in an open world MMO than rule with world first and server first instances any day every day.
It's boring. It gets stale. It's a game on tracks.
That's a single player game. It doesn't matter how fun Mass Effect is. I can't play Mass Effect and experience the SAME EXACT THING fifty billion times and enjoy it. That's what an instance is.

Not for me.

I want to watch people wipe and be ready to claim. I want to have to claim under less than ideal conditions. I want my LS to fight its ass off to make sure we don't wipe in front of someone else. I want to overcome through the skill and strength of my LS the most trying MPK attempts while we're on the brink of failure and win despite it.

That's an MMO.

Addressing the bot issue is IMO addressed through addressing the pop system.
Give future Tiamats enough spawn locations way off the beaten path that an entire linkshell can not sit waiting for them with a kill alliance in one place and a bot at the ready. Or make every mob in the game, from a boar in some remote corner of the world to a marmot squirrel 2 feet outside Uldah's gate, a potential place holder for an HNM.

Make the claim reliant on who can find them and who can muster an alliance the fastest.

There are plenty of solutions short of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Arcell]

Other than free roaming NMs (I don't think they deserve the title of HNMs) there's only two imperfect open-world events besides the monotonously repetitive guildleves: Behest and Caravans.

Just wanted to point out that this is simply not true. We do have four Strongholds full of enemies and coffers, three of which have NMs waiting at the end. Also for the lower in level we have Shposhae, a fully open-world dungeon, and more than a dozen lower level NMs. I'm not saying it's the best things we've ever seen but it IS open-world content.

The devs have stated that there will be more open-world content and it's not like they're re-doing the maps just to look pretty. They'll fill those maps with things to do, instanced or not. However that being said, it does seem like a lot of the content is shifting to instanced despite the loud "discussions" in opposition. The community has spoken at length about this many times and still the devs are doing mostly what they want to and what they feel is right for the game. If instanced content really kills the game for you then perhaps FFXIV is not for you, even in 2.0. I would suggest people take the time to consider how much this all really matters to them and evaluate their choice to keep playing.

[vax]

In 2.0 the only open world content will be the main cities, then everything will be instanced.