If westerners want rewards and unranked has problems to stay alive then...

[Valence]

Then no, asking to pour constant dev resources into exclusive goodies for ranked pvp is not the most satisfying answer, especially since it brings back into the fold the infamous fomo. Whether you care or not about fomo in games, fact of the matter remains that fomo is still considered with a vibrant hatred by a big part of the playerbase.

On the other hand though, and maybe that's going to be a radical hot take, but if you want to make a LOT of players try out ranked, then perhaps ranked requires rewards worthy of running it that also exist in other modes, namely pve raids. For instance, you can totally envision casual queue and bronze-gold to display specific baseline NM raid gear to be gotten from them, and perhaps ranked could have a way better ratio for it than casual. And then, maybe you can envision tome, augmented tome and savage gear behind the highest ranks, like plat/diam/crystal, with the highest item levels firmly locked behind crystal.

The details on how such a system would work are totally open and I don't pretend to have the answer to everything, but if the worry is to see players in full savage gear week 1 when they reach crystal immediately, then no, you'd need a progression system behind for sure, that would keep in line with pve raids like pve raids have weekly caps. There is definitely many ways one could envision such a system, like:

- Introduce gear tier unlocks, as in, reach platinum = access to savage accessories, reach diamond = access to savage left side gear, reach crystal = access to savage weapons. Augmentation tokens could also be set appropriately: diamond for accs tokens, crystal for left side gear and weapon upgrade tokens. As such, crystal would be required for the highest tier item level, much like reaching the latest savage fights is during a tier.
- Get a certain amount of pages when one unlocks the next step, aka get into platinum, you get a certain amount of books/pages to spend on savage accessories. Get into diamond, you get a certain amount of books/pages to spend on left side gear, etc. Each week, reconfirm your ranking by getting a certain amount of victories (for example) to get new books/pages to spend, capped per week, like pve savage.
- Introduce rank decay per week if required (to be balanced, I don't want to get into meaningless arguments about the minutiae of it here).

____________________

- B-but, what if people both play ranked pvp AND pve savage? They'll gear up twice as fast won't they???

Yeah so what? People already do split runs at hardcore level in pve savage to gear up twice as fast. The only limit right now is how fast one can get tome gear... And I do believe that's another discussion altogether. Anyway, if people have the time to grind pvp AND pve prog at the same time and invest as much into it, then why not? Are they getting an unfair advantage in some way? idk...

- B-but you're completely stealing focus from pve savage! People that clear savage want to have something unique to that achievement!

The argument about uniqueness is fair honestly. And it's true that pvp, unlike pve, doesn't get any direct result from the new shiny gear, so why should pvp hand out pve shinies? Again, what does access to this pve shiny gear bring exactly? You run dungeons and expert roulette better? Who cares? It's a nice perk you get after the effort you put into gearing up.

You have gear to actually run ultimates? Yeah and so? Current Ultimates require serious savage prog and clear anyway, unless you want to clear older Ultimates, where cutting edge gear is no longer relevant anyway.

- B-but, you're gonna piss off all the pve crowd by making the gear not exclusive to savage!

So what? I honestly couldn't give two f** about it. Make them mald if they have to. I don't see any rational reason to mald for it anyway.

And more seriously, I do believe that more avenues and options to get something is always better, not less. We're not talking about specific cosmetics goodies and rewards proper to each piece of content like minions, mounts, rolls, etc. That doesn't change, savage gets their own mounts, pvp series keep their own goodies, etc. If people want them all, then they can try their hand at each.

- B-but I don't like that good relevant gear or anything be locked behind a mode that I hate (pvp)!

Then just prog pve raids like everybody. Problem solved.

- It might upset the progression clear rate of savage fight by inflating item level faster over time.

That's a legitimate concern (even though split runs exist anyway lel, and even though a static is already unfair when it comes to gear acquisition compared to duty finder players). Perhaps you'd need to balance and ensure that ilvl progression doesn't happen instantly, even with a book/page system so that you don't get pvp hardcores hopping into pve raids week 2 and shredding bosses like if they were geared after a few weeks of reclears. Or maybe implement a delay of a certain amount of weeks to keep both modes desynced a little.

Actually you know what? I was the one making a thread if I recall about not releasing pvp seasons at the same time as savage prog, because it's pretty hardcore on the time it asks of players doing both, and it's actually detrimental to have both modes successful in terms of players since they both compete on where one devotes their time. So if pvp seasons get desynced from savage tier releases, then perhaps it's for the best, and the gear you'd get is still good gear even if you could get it faster with savage. Makes everybody happy no? Also makes it easier to gear up alt jobs btw.

____________________

Or maybe I'm totally wrong and nobody would care about that kind of rewards? Idk, I personally think it has a lot more intrinsic value than some plate cosmetics or red glowy hellhounds... And it would also serve to tie together several pieces of core content together into how they progress into the post expansion life...

Another point, a lot of people have also mentioned more regular pvp team tournaments for LPs (light parties / premades), and I also do agree with this a lot. Anything you bring to actually make pvp as much of a core piece of content to each expansion, will actually tend toward that goal and make the mode more popular.

Into the same vein, introduce duo queue for casual crystalline conflict, and make sure it matches duos vs other duos to prevent complaints about unfairness. Make casual players actually happy to run something else than just roulettes or their weekly NM raids every time to farm for their pieces of baseline gear, you know.

Is it a dumb idea?


( Before you tell me, yes, I'm staunchly convinced that SE doesn't have the guts to try something as wild as this, but I still thought it would be food for thought if just to make people mad )

[Valence]

Disclaimer as I've been pointed to this video where Brian and Damiani actually bring a similar idea.

So as not to take sole credit for the idea, I think it's fair to point out that I'm not the only one thinking about this, and they also bring different ideas and arguments in the video, notably around 1:18:00. So it adds more to the pile I guess.

[Araxes]

Gearing through pvp was a thing once loooong ago. They abandoned that pretty quick though. FFXIV is the only mmo i know that has no Gear for its pvp player base. Yes, the mode does not require gear anymore as it did many years ago but it would still be nice if we could earn some decent gear with the overflowing currency you can't spend on anything after 2 weeks because you got everything. Right 15k Wolf Marks for ONE materia? Yeah no thanks that aint even worth the teleport to the Wolfs Den.

I think it is a GREAT idea to introduce Gear for Rank but i would reduce the requirements. Believe it or not, a lot of players in this Game are the relaxed type and wouldn't manage to go past silver even if they tried.
So i would think let accessories start at silver or Gold. If you stuff the gear into high tiers, it would defeat the purpose i believe. Another thing would be the addition of ranked Battlegrounds/Frontlines. WoW is introducing this now with soloqueue and it gets quite positive reception. I tried it too and its great tbh.

[Astralrisk]

I am on board with this idea, mostly because having another source of gear acquisition in general would be good. At best I just see it as having an extra source of gear that could potentially be BiS, and at worst it could just be an ilvl equivalent that is just worse(not having crit/dh). I personally don't see an issue with speeding up the gearing process either, it only really matters if you plan on clearing the 4th floor on the 1st week honestly. And they could prevent the armor from being FOMOed by just making it easier to get next season/tier while introducing a new armor set. I've seen other games do similar things like this in other games, so I don't see why XIV can't do this as well.

[Solonuke]

I don't think adding gear to the ladder would make much of a difference. It seems like a ton of work get a specific amount of raid pages for reaching a specific rank. The only place this would make any sense if you were a top raider is if you were to gear up a second job (unlocking the savage tier when an ultimate hits sounds like a much better option).

Reconfirming your rank with a specific amount of wins sound like an absolute nightmare if you are using this while progressing with a raid group that's not an excellent raid group but a mediocre one at best. I dread the thought of not only do people want me to gear up through running dungeons but also to get an arbitrary amount of wins in CC so I won't get kicked out of the raid group for not progressing "fast" enough. Not only do I need to know the raid fights but now I also need to be a great player in CC!

Edit: I forgot that you also got tomestones from CC. My point still remains when it comes to progging both raid and CC at the same time.

[AnotherPerson]

PvE Savage raiders malding for PvP endgame gear because they can acquire gear twice as fast? Pft, only if they forget it takes the time to get a high rank that it's can be its own hardcore content with enough players actively trying to climb. I remember constantly facing Crystal tier players when we were all fresh outta gold. Truly one of the bloodiest of fights to place ahead, and that's fine in itself. PvP is also like PvE where it's a time commitment to climb. After most people with better skill finishes climbing to get to a certain rank, the next group will get their turn too (pretty much another way at looking at week 1 clears vs week 2 clears on savage). This is just another optional way for players to feel their time is spent well. Outside of world first gearing (which probably won't apply here), I don't see a problem with it. It honestly would not be a bad idea. At the very least, people who work to achieve a high rank have ilvl gear to compensate for their time spent to get it.

It would also address some endgame alt job gearing too. The grind for a second alt job is taking too long? You can get more pieces with PvP if you work towards it. If they want to differentiate the "savage" meaning, PvP gear at the same ILVL point can be affixed with a different name. It's not like it really matters when you end up getting better gear in a couple patches down the road. People tend to unsync old content anyway, so I'm not sure if the prestige can even be considered to last with higher ilvls.

The only concern is for progression, but if you're in an elitist group trying to min-max all your gear by week 1 -- where the norm is not to have all your gear outside of crafted pieces and one/two tome gear... idk what to tell you other than you should address your PvE skill issue first. Taking the roundabout path to farm additional gear pieces tend to have a lot less impact than learning the fight itself first... not to mention a lot less time efficient.

[Valence]

I don't think adding gear to the ladder would make much of a difference. It seems like a ton of work get a specific amount of raid pages for reaching a specific rank. The only place this would make any sense if you were a top raider is if you were to gear up a second job (unlocking the savage tier when an ultimate hits sounds like a much better option).

Reconfirming your rank with a specific amount of wins sound like an absolute nightmare if you are using this while progressing with a raid group that's not an excellent raid group but a mediocre one at best. I dread the thought of not only do people want me to gear up through running dungeons but also to get an arbitrary amount of wins in CC so I won't get kicked out of the raid group for not progressing "fast" enough. Not only do I need to know the raid fights but now I also need to be a great player in CC!

Edit: I forgot that you also got tomestones from CC. My point still remains when it comes to progging both raid and CC at the same time.

This is why if you read everything that I wrote, I actually am in favor of an option where they desync raid release from the start of ranked seasons, which I have already asked in a thread somewhere already. Having both competing with each other at the same time is toxic for the mode itself. People that do raid and participate into ranked (like me) cannot properly devote time to both, and both are also on a timer: pve raids because your static has schedules to uphold, and ranked because the queue peters out and die after a few weeks, which this thread seeks to address.

I also specifically mentioned that at which exact rank the rewards start being accessible is also details and minutia and doesn't change the core concept of the idea, but i'm glad to see that as I expected, people would balk at the idea because of this instead of considering the idea on its own. And while I do not think one has to work too hard to get into platinum, I still think you'd need to put on at least a little effort to get savage tier rewards, much like you have to to clear the savage fights themselves, even the first one. I mean, you can lower the access to gold for accessories, idk, but silver is really pushing it. Anybody can get into silver with a streak of luck, and you cannot even fall down to a lower league until diamond rank... People those days just don't want to be putting any effort into something with rewards to be frank. I do understand that this was one of the main complaints about the glowy hellhound weapons and perhaps there is a middleground to be found, where you'd have to work extra hard to get access to pages and books below platinum? You'd progress less fast, but you'd progress over time still. If you make it too easy to get some of the gear, you'd see players just get into the lowest ranks, turn them into a frontline rouletters kind of deal, and just stop once they get their shinies. The idea is to inspire people into trying another mode and go for higher results, not to serve as minimum welfare gearing.

The initial idea I had for tomestones from ranked CC was specifically tome gear rewards that bypass the weekly tome cap, purchasable with the same books and pages. Tbh, savage could also benefit from this in a way as well. There comes a point in time where you just don't know what to do with those otherwise.


Edit on the middleground idea, giving out an example (and again, it's just an arbitrary example). T1 refers to first fight books (accessories), T2 to second fight books (left side gear+accs augments), T3 to third fight books (legs+augments), T4 to fourth fight books (chest/weapons). This would take place without changing the release time of ranked seasons, so at the same time than savage prog (which is full of problems as mentioned above, so the rewards are kept low not to disrupt early prog at all, trickling down gear rewards only later and favoring gearing other jobs):

- Casual: spend wolf marks / crystal trophies (anything that works really) onto NM raid gear, week 1
- Bronze: gain twice more wolf marks as rewards
- Silver: gain twice more crystal trophies as rewards
- Gold: 1 T1 book per week
- Platinum: 1 T1 book per week, 1 T2 book per week
- Diamond: 1 T1 book per week, 1 T2 book per week, 1 T3 book per week
- Crystal: 1 T1 book per week, 1 T2 book per week, 1 T3 book per week, 1 T4 book per week

Within the idea of a delayed ranked season release compared to savage (like 1 or 2 months later):

Bring up the book rewards to 4 for T1, 6 for T2, 6 for T3, 4 or 8 for T4.

[Lacksz]

As a non-Westerner, no thanks, I don't want savage gear to be the "Ranked PvP" reward.

If I want savage gear, I will clear savage fights
If I get books from Ranked, I will most likely discard them

For now, the best thing SE could do is add more items to buy with the commendation crystals, adding glow to a 7-year-old weapon and calling it a reward is kinda lame.. unless we get augmented hellhound armor to match it with the weapons? Still lame.

Each Ranked "Season" should give a unique reward.

[YouWereIndicted]

I'm always on board for more rewards because the current system is just not enough compared to what was granted in earlier PvP modes. Hellhound Weapons are a step in the right direction but more is definitely welcomed. Your suggestion isn't bad but would interfere with the system SE is very comfortable and acclimated to doing for Savage progression and I can't see them doing anything to get in the way of that.

If anything, it would be nice for an additional way to augment Tomestone gear early on in the tier but would have to make it a weekly cap somehow (similar to if you got Divine Shine in P10S) but the grind would have to be hefty so it isn't like you're bypassing the first two Savage floors to augment Tome pieces. I am more surprised this kind of currency system from PvP doesn't let you get Sack of Nuts somehow to exchange for Divine Shine/Twine when you are able to in the months after the tier from doing Hunts or an Alliance raid. I would prefer the former system though as it would entice more people to do PvP because nothing really beats just spamming Hunts for that kind of currency.

I think we can all agree though that like the poster said above, more Seasonal rewards is what it would take. In my opinion the last three PvP attires you get from the Series pass have been pretty good and they could have easily passed them as Top 100/Commendation Crystal currency rewards. So it is not like they are not capable of giving said unique rewards. There is just always a fine line of causing an uproar from the entitled people who don't even PvP or care about this games' PvP yet they don't want anyone to get rewards that requires an effort in PvP. Wasn't around during The Feast but from the earlier posts I saw years back that's what happened anyway and is part of the reason the Series pass exists and ranked doesn't get much rewards anymore.

But yeah, I think rewards that are unique to each Season whether it is a Mount or an Attire is what would cut it for me just like they did with the earlier PvP modes. Because as of right now, not much of a reason to go beyond Crystal rank in the first week and decide to not just park your character there for the season. Not much drive to go beyond that and is what many people (including me) just do tbh. If I want to just PvP or go for the title I would just queue unranked. Which is another problem entirely with ranked vs unranked but that is another discussion. This is all just spitballing and pipedreaming at this point anyway.

[Astrahime]

Heavily decrease the number of Wolf Marks required to get Materia. To like 10% of what it is now. SE doesn't know how efficient Hunt Trains are.

Make Twines, Shines, and Solvents buyable with substantial amounts of Wolf Marks. 15k for armor, 20k for weapon, and 10k for accessories sounds good. Maybe make buying them with Trophy Crystals an option at 25% of the amount.

If you ranked highly in the previous CC tier, congratulations! Here's a coffer of CATCHUP gear. That's right, here's a coffer of gear equal in iLv to the current EX trial! For Gold+ give them accessories, Platinum+ the leftside, and Diamond/Crystal the weapon.
Maybe make it immediately accessible instead of at the .x5 patch, since that's only a 5 IL increase from what everyone's able to get from crafted gear.

And to incentivize glamour hunters to do it, make it unique in some way. A unique recolor of tome gear maybe, or a new model like some of the old PvP sets.