Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mawlzy]

Personal meme I'd like to see while going against a premade is everyone swap to sch if you notice it after first initial wipe and spread that dot if more then 5 schs with no bh start applying the dot correctly. no team can handle it at a early stage of the game. It is a effective counter. if you get the dot off right and have 5 or more schs doing it its bascially 25k dot tick and requires you to instantly spam heal your self and try for elixer or die. I think everyone swap to warrior is a good strat too, like if you got 10 warriors all primal rending and yoinking the drk around it gets very annyoing im sure and can easy break up the normal drk zerg. Did the warrior thing the other day someone said lets swap to war and had like 7 wars just constantly jumping on the pile and yoinking the dark and ended up winning after being down from pinch at start.

My guess is around half the players in a typical FL match only have a PvP hotbar set up for a single job.

[Aravell]

Smurfing would be an obvious danger, agreed. And if that did happen to any degree, it would demonstrate definitively that the perpetrators never had the slightest interest in high-quality, JP-like matches in the first place.

I have pointed out the problem of unintentional smurfing under such a system before, but I suppose the people who are farming wins on Dynamis would be boosted to the highest tier if such a system were implemented.

The biggest concern would be in smaller DCs where a tiered system might prevent Frontlines from popping at all. I guess it might work if the queue would expand by one tier after a certain amount of time has passed while in the queue. Like how the upper tier can match with the middle tier after a certain amount of time has passed, the lower tier can match with the middle tier after a certain amount of time has passed, and the middle tier can match with both the lower and upper tier (but not both) after a certain amount of time has passed. This would make queues less likely to stall, would also make sure the lower tier would never match with the upper tier because the queue would only expand by one tier.

[Mawlzy]

I have pointed out the problem of unintentional smurfing under such a system before, but I suppose the people who are farming wins on Dynamis would be boosted to the highest tier if such a system were implemented.

The biggest concern would be in smaller DCs where a tiered system might prevent Frontlines from popping at all. I guess it might work if the queue would expand by one tier after a certain amount of time has passed while in the queue. Like how the upper tier can match with the middle tier after a certain amount of time has passed, the lower tier can match with the middle tier after a certain amount of time has passed, and the middle tier can match with both the lower and upper tier (but not both) after a certain amount of time has passed. This would make queues less likely to stall, would also make sure the lower tier would never match with the upper tier because the queue would only expand by one tier.

That sort of dynamic queue response would be an interesting solution. Equally, I think FL is the perfect instanced content to experiment with cross-DC queueing.

[Lydia77]

Its not!
Even when i expect them to do their so hard to preform combo i have other limiting factors.
I use guard and get demolished by macrocosmos anyway. No LB needed.
I used guard and survived it but 5 of my teammates died and enemy team is full of BH5
I used guard and we semi-succesfully survived the comp of yellow premade.... Only for BLUE premade do the same WHILE MY GUARD IS ON CD
I used guard and it was removed by one of 3 jobs they usualy pack up jsut to counter my counter. Fun!
Do not tell me to punch off DRK away with a monk
And today i had a bad day and PVP roulette was my last one. Solo. And we had 2 parites of DRK+ premades on "lick the ice" map. Enemy team had one. Yeah what the heck i thought. I just swaped to astro (from BLM) and followed the marked DRKs to do my stuff. I want to say that my heals buffs and timed LBs mattered but it would be a lie. all i had to do is gravity and macrocosmos.
We won topscoring on everything but ice. WE just ignored objectives.
To make DRK combo succesfull you dont have to be in their premade or voice chat. just follow them and do what these comboes do. And we all know what that is.
To do that as 20 summoners with dancer astro and bard buffs is another story. Too much coordination, when you can just leap in, suck 50 people, dont even root them, guard or LB while your team annihilates them be them in your premade or not.
This has to end

[Lydia77]

Personal meme I'd like to see while going against a premade is everyone swap to sch if you notice it after first initial wipe and spread that dot if more then 5 schs with no bh start applying the dot correctly. no team can handle it at a early stage of the game. It is a effective counter. if you get the dot off right and have 5 or more schs doing it its bascially 25k dot tick and requires you to instantly spam heal your self and try for elixer or die. I think everyone swap to warrior is a good strat too, like if you got 10 warriors all primal rending and yoinking the drk around it gets very annyoing im sure and can easy break up the normal drk zerg. Did the warrior thing the other day someone said lets swap to war and had like 7 wars just constantly jumping on the pile and yoinking the dark and ended up winning after being down from pinch at start.

WE all would like to see you do that strat. cant wait

[OliviaLugria]

If the solution to a DRK is:

play a job that specifically counters it,
feed (or be) an allied DRK ("play stronger jobs"),
run away,

that's bad actually. You should not be forced into a job you don't know how to play because otherwise you'll die to a midly coordinated DRK if you actually try to fight the player in the PvP mode. That's how you get apathetic players instead.

Every job has 8 skills at most. It is not difficult to have a few at your disposal. Have you never heard of a counter pick before, or are you the type of person who always chooses scissors against rock and complain you lose? Some jobs being better in a matchup is just a by-product of them being unique.

You also haven't heard of baiting before. If a decent size portion of your team spreads out and avoids the drk burst, you can re-engage with them while they're out of resources. Higher end games are all about these cascading engages.

Finally... ya, when you're using the term "fighting" as in blindly charge in at a mob of enemies with all their lbs and defensives available to them, it is and should remain a bad tactic. Blindly charging the enemy isn't a sustainable method. Moat jobs' damage spikes for 3gcds then you deal basically nothing for 20-30 seconds. Playing around this timer and fighting efficiently is how you beat a dark team or any team for that matter.

[Mawlzy]

Every job has 8 skills at most. It is not difficult to have a few at your disposal. Have you never heard of a counter pick before, or are you the type of person who always chooses scissors against rock and complain you lose? Some jobs being better in a matchup is just a by-product of them being unique.

You also haven't heard of baiting before. If a decent size portion of your team spreads out and avoids the drk burst, you can re-engage with them while they're out of resources. Higher end games are all about these cascading engages.

Finally... ya, when you're using the term "fighting" as in blindly charge in at a mob of enemies with all their lbs and defensives available to them, it is and should remain a bad tactic. Blindly charging the enemy isn't a sustainable method. Moat jobs' damage spikes for 3gcds then you deal basically nothing for 20-30 seconds. Playing around this timer and fighting efficiently is how you beat a dark team or any team for that matter.

Have you ever seen such a game on Aether outside of Q-synchs?

[OliviaLugria]

Have you ever seen such a game on Aether outside of Q-synchs?

actually, last shatter on crystal had this going most the night! Can even go see the vod on my twitch!

[Mawlzy]

actually, last shatter on crystal had this going most the night! Can even go see the vod on my twitch!

Nice plug . As you know, I don't find Shatter interesting.

[Mawlzy]

Since this is the highest-traffic FL thread, I was wondering if anyone can confirm this really happened. I ask because I did quite a lot of acid in my teens, 20s, 30s, and early 40s, and occasionally have some issues with reality.

In a match around midnight on Aether/Onsal, things were proceeding as normal, when a procession of 5 or 6 big, black cars drove very slowly out of cave. Nobody attacked them initially, so I wondered if they were paying respects to someone. Or it might have been the fact the front two cars were being driven by SAMs, I dunno.

Anyway, if this was some sort of vigil. I'd like to apologize to the Bard in the third car who I attacked. And if someone can confirm it happened, I'll refrain from checking myself into my little retreat at the clinic.

Despite this rather unusual strategy, which clearly used up time, made this part of the team sitting ducks, and I'm guessing would be regarded as lethargic (particularly since they never got outta first gear), they still won.