Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Sinstrel]

Let's say they somehow create a perfect way to stop all pre-mades and que syncing, and get rid of DRK salted earth, block job stacking, perfectly cap AoE to 5 targets just the way thats perfect for you, and completely remove "win trading"...

What happens when the same players being accused of all of these things still stomp every match with game knowledge, map awareness and synergy with other veteran PvPers who they've matched with over and over for years?

Humor me.

[MisterNublet]

Let's say they somehow create a perfect way to stop all pre-mades and que syncing, and get rid of DRK salted earth, block job stacking, perfectly cap AoE to 5 targets just the way thats perfect for you, and completely remove "win trading"...

What happens when the same players being accused of all of these things still stomp every match with game knowledge, map awareness and synergy with other veteran PvPers who they've matched with over and over for years?

Humor me.

Isn't it obvious? Better keyboard and gaming chair.

[Mawlzy]

Let's say they somehow create a perfect way to stop all pre-mades and que syncing, and get rid of DRK salted earth, block job stacking, perfectly cap AoE to 5 targets just the way thats perfect for you, and completely remove "win trading"...

What happens when the same players being accused of all of these things still stomp every match with game knowledge, map awareness and synergy with other veteran PvPers who they've matched with over and over for years?

Humor me.

They wouldn't, if for no other reason than the genuine crushers (there are few IMO) would be distributed across all 3 teams. That said, a matchmaking algorithm would cure the hypothetical problem and make all matches more competitive.

It's not a giant leap, is it?

Gold: Players with fewer than X games and those in the bottom third of win-rate. Also acts as an on-ramp/training ground for PvP sprouts.
Platinum: The middle third of players based on win-rate with more than X games.
Crystal: High (top third) win-rate players. Thereby giving the Discord mafia what they claim to want: high-quality matches free of "leeches."

Or is the 14 PvP community sufficiently messed up we'd just get a massive outbreak of smurfing?

[Aravell]

They wouldn't, if for no other reason than the genuine crushers (there are few IMO) would be distributed across all 3 teams. That said, a matchmaking algorithm would cure the hypothetical problem and make all matches more competitive.

It's not a giant leap, is it?

Gold: Players with fewer than X games and those in the bottom third of win-rate. Also acts as an on-ramp/training ground for PvP sprouts.
Platinum: The middle third of players based on win-rate with more than X games.
Crystal: High (top third) win-rate players. Thereby giving the Discord mafia what they claim to want: high-quality matches free of "leeches."

Or is the 14 PvP community sufficiently messed up we'd just get a massive outbreak of smurfing?

It's worth noting that this kind of system could create unintentional smurfing.

For example, I used to queue up with 7 other friends back when 8 man parties were allowed and we would play meme comps and just have fun whether we win or lose. As a result, my winrate is currently less than 30%, which means I'd be put with the newbies. However, when I play a job I know how to play, I usually end the game with a score of 8/0 or 14/1 or something like that as a solo player, that would probably end up with me unintentionally smurfing my matches with this system.

I guess my point is that any system would have flaws, although the flaw in this case would naturally correct itself as all the experienced players with low win rate will naturally rise out of the lower tiers.

[Mawlzy]

It's worth noting that this kind of system could create unintentional smurfing.

For example, I used to queue up with 7 other friends back when 8 man parties were allowed and we would play meme comps and just have fun whether we win or lose. As a result, my winrate is currently less than 30%, which means I'd be put with the newbies. However, when I play a job I know how to play, I usually end the game with a score of 8/0 or 14/1 or something like that as a solo player, that would probably end up with me unintentionally smurfing my matches with this system.

I guess my point is that any system would have flaws, although the flaw in this case would naturally correct itself as all the experienced players with low win rate will naturally rise out of the lower tiers.

Yeah, there will doubtless be anomalies like that, and one other issue with 24-person teams is that it slows the movement of players to their "correct" tier. It'd go much faster with 16- or 8-person teams.

I just feel anything is better than dumping such a broad swathe of experience and motivation levels in one big bucket. I think it'd eliminate 90% of the frustration and unpleasantness that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

[Aravell]

Yeah, there will doubtless be anomalies like that, and one other issue with 24-person teams is that it slows the movement of players to their "correct" tier. It'd go much faster with 16- or 8-person teams.

I just feel anything is better than dumping such a broad swathe of experience and motivation levels in one big bucket. I think it'd eliminate 90% of the frustration and unpleasantness that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

I think a smaller party size is kind of a double-edged sword here, if the party size is 24 and 4 people die to a DRK dive, you still have 20 people to mount a counterattack on the retreating opponents, but if 4 people die in an 8 man party, that's half your team gone.

While 8 man teams would be cleaner and easier for newbies to tell what's going on, it would also amplify the contributions of a single player, making both premades and strong solo players even more impactful.

[Mawlzy]

I think a smaller party size is kind of a double-edged sword here, if the party size is 24 and 4 people die to a DRK dive, you still have 20 people to mount a counterattack on the retreating opponents, but if 4 people die in an 8 man party, that's half your team gone.

While 8 man teams would be cleaner and easier for newbies to tell what's going on, it would also amplify the contributions of a single player, making both premades and strong solo players even more impactful.

Wonder if a MMR would self-correct that? Yeah it's a complex issue, and I don't think SQEX willfully went out of their way to create the current mess, but it is their responsibility to get in there with a mop and bucket and deal with it.