Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Xylira]

AST is honestly the worst offender in the blender combo but it would be mid without DRK so it's again just a Salted Earth issue.

I still think it's a poorly balanced synergy issue.

DRK with it's LB and salted earth is annoying, but on its own are manageable.

AST's burst with macro and gravity are potent, but on their own not OP.

DRG's LB on it's own is potent, but reasonable.

And of course also honorable mentions to DNC and RPR LB guard breaking.

It's when combinations of these are executed together that we see FL balance absolutely fall apart, when 2-3 players coordinating LBs together can wipe entire full parties with ease. And let's be honest they really don't take all that much effort to coordinate, especially if it's being done as a premade team that intentionally team stacks the correct jobs for it. The difficulty most non-premade teams have is the players tend not to be try-hard enough to coordinate for it.

If SE isn't going to properly balance jobs for FL, then they should just split the FL queues between solo and team, so at least the more casual FL players don't constantly get stomped.

[OliviaLugria]

Solo players have consistently been able to deny those meta stacks by playing around them or to counter them, especially on WAR. If you want an algorithm that factors in win rate and splits teams better, sure thats fine and something I think most people would get on board with. However if you want to improve the FL experience overall with differing reward scaling, giving 0.25x rewards to the bottom performing players in each alliance that don't pass a baseline would do far more good for improving FL than giving 0.25x rewards for people who queued as 4 since lazy and entitled players not pushing buttons are much more of an issue than meta stacks.

Crazy how COD had this figured out in 2007... get kill? Here's exp. Get assist? here's exp. Capture objective? Get exp. Do nothing all game? Get nothing.

Mawlzy's analogy fails to mention that the people playing football are watching shows on their phone, several are just wondering about the field taking pictures, some don't even know the rules, and most don't even want to be there.

Enjoy that while I designate myself as leader, people are free to mute the calls and chat, blacklist me, and not follow. Also apparently forces my guide down people's throats. "Hey if you like my calls, ask about my guide!" I'm really force feeding it aren't I?

[Archeron]

I don't disagree that the rewards should be performance based, but where do you draw the line of what constitutes a performance deserving of reward, and what does not? I can be a useless player who does nothing but capture objectives and AFK watching youtube while on "Defense". I can charge into battle and die repeatedly just to bump my damage done, or assists up to a suitable level. I can also just roll scholar, put my buffs out 3 times, and hit an arbitrary damage threshold and AFK for the rest of the match. The metrics for these systems rarely ever work in practice, and are just ripe for further abuse.

My stance has always been wanting to see people to improve, to understand meta and strategy, party up and coordinate in chat. There is a lot going on in this mode, and I will beat it into people until they understand it or give up. Either way benefits me. Better games or continue to grind exp faster.

Your own words. You will Beat it into their heads. That sounds like you don't want to give them a choice, and displays your true character rather well. I don't buy your false altruistic persona. If you truly cared for the education of NA PvP players, and bringing a competitive environment to Frontlines such as what is seen on JP, you'd offer suggestions to combat that, aside from an out of touch guide, and the idea that being crushed repeatedly in a match is somehow going to motivate people to want to learn. I don't see you supporting PvP hall of the novice, and I think your comments about your winrate show where your interests truly lie. Embrace it, and stop pretending otherwise.

[Gaiinahat]

Then along comes the premades destroying everything in their path. Then along comes those "commanders" who are friends with the premade teams and starts feeding our alliance to the premades, or directing us away from the objectives in order to help the premades win, or attacking the other team when the premade team is within a few points of winning. They make completely nonsensical calls and then it becomes obvious they are setting us up to lose. When I call them out, I get shut down. I get called toxic, a defeatist, told I should just quit, that I'm just mad because we're losing, or that I'm going to be reported for griefing. So I have learned to just bite my tounge, just "follow the D", and accept the loss.

I've had some pretty good stompings from premades before and yes it sucks, and it becomes discouraging, but I've always went back to see how I could get better.
However, there comes a point in which no matter how hard you try, no matter how much better you try to become, you come to accept that you will never be able to outskill an organized premade who's only purpose is to win at all costs, no matter how much damage they are doing to the PvP community.

Today in Shatter was the final straw. There was a premade of 5 DRKs chain-spamming Salted Earth and followed up with RPRs and whatever else I couldn't tell was there because it was all over in a flash.
No amount of shielding, purify, heal spamming, or trying to run away could stop them. There was just no mitigating it. There was just no escape.
THREE TIMES IN A ROW this group wiped OUR ENTIRE ALLIANCE in less that 10 minutes. We maybe had 1 or 2 people survive each time - out of an entire alliance.

That wasn't just a curb stomping. That was complete and utter OBLITERATION, and there was NOTHING anyone could do about it.
That wasn't just defeat. That was total humiliation. I have never seen anything like it. It completely sucked the soul out of every single one of us.

What happened after that? We all farmed ice for the rest of the match. We didn't care anymore. We were DONE.
Let the premade have their win. Let them have the whole thing. They can keep it.

The PvP in this game isn't worth being dehumanized for the sole purpose of being farmed for numbers, or rankings, or rewards, or prestige, or none that crap.

You know what else I found out? For the same amount of time, and for twice as many tomes, I can do alliance raids. 20 minutes, 100 tomes, and lots more exp.
I don't need PvP anymore except for the once-a-day experience boost. If I decide I want to do it or not.

All because of premades.

Those of you who defend premades and say, "Oh, it's not premades, it's lack of skill, or lack of trying, or it's the map, or blah blah blah." Stop. Just stop.
I don't want to hear, "I'm sorry this happened to you" or "It's not all premades." I was there. I saw what I saw with my own eyes. You will not convince me otherwise.

You need to clean up your community. I'm out.

[Mawlzy]

You need to clean up your community. I'm out.

And sadly, you are not alone. Players with an interest and skill in PvP are tired of playing pointless cameo roles in a play directed and performed by premades. And who remains? Those with no interest beyond XP and rewards. The AFKers.

[danndeline]

The community does need some cleaning, sure, but "premade curb stomping" is not on the bingo card. I'm a mostly solo player, barre more recently with a few of my friends because I enjoy playing with them and have fun with them, but if I play solo, I do okay by myself. I'm not sorry, it really is a lack of something when it comes to people thinking that this is an issue. But if you don't want to listen to the advice people who do like to play with other people and continue to willingly deafen your ears, that's on you. The only place I see the circle jerking of complaining about premades is here. Don't like it? Do something about it, even if it's giving up, like you chose.

[Mawlzy]

The community does need some cleaning, sure, but "premade curb stomping" is not on the bingo card. I'm a mostly solo player, barre more recently with a few of my friends because I enjoy playing with them and have fun with them, but if I play solo, I do okay by myself. I'm not sorry, it really is a lack of something when it comes to people thinking that this is an issue. But if you don't want to listen to the advice people who do like to play with other people and continue to willingly deafen your ears, that's on you. The only place I see the circle jerking of complaining about premades is here. Don't like it? Do something about it, even if it's giving up, like you chose.

Isn't that simply because the only other arena in which you get any PvP discussion at all is the Discord servers with their voice and LFG channels where these 70%+ premade win-rates are generated?

The place I see most of the criticisms of premades and overbearing commanders is FL chat.

I have to say, Daniil, I'm saddened by your final comment. You struck me as one of the more reasonable premade members. You just want us all to leave, huh?

[danndeline]

Isn't that simply because the only other arena in which you get any PvP discussion at all is the Discord servers with their voice and LFG channels where these 70%+ premade win-rates are generated?

The place I see most of the criticisms of premades and overbearing commanders is FL chat.

I have to say, Daniil, I'm saddened by your final comment. You struck me as one of the more reasonable premade members. You just want us all to leave, huh?

There are plenty of places to discuss PvP, Discord is just the easiest form of media to do it. I've talked about Pvp on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and probably a few more places that I cant remember. If people like PvP and they like to solo queue, that's fine. It makes me wonder do these people ever want to make friends with PvP regulars and play with them? Or even friends outside of PvP. I don't play PvP to win, I play it because it's fun. It's fun to win. I like playing with my friends and having fun. Maybe my word choice wasn't the best, but I still stand by it. I've seen the comments made by you in screenshots saying unsavory things about my friends, who are just having fun with their own friends, so I'm more leaning into taking being disappointed with my comment with a grain of salt.

If you're disappointed by any of what I have to say, then all I can say that it is what it is. My win rate is pretty abysmal, it's only 38%. It could be higher, but I don't feel like it. I like just having fun and getting big numbers when I can, which is when I solo queue. Maybe one day we can party up and you can see how fun it is to play with other people and that winning with your friends is fun. Until then, I wish you well.

[Mawlzy]

I'm finding this discussion pretty funny at this point. Are we really supposed to take it seriously when this stream of premade members and commanders come in here and yell "No! You're all completely wrong! Premades are perfectly fine and do not have a negative impact on the mode!"

We then get a list of the various ways premades can be countered. Again. Which happens once in a blue moon when enough strong solo players happen to land on the same team.

You cannot avoid this fundamental stat: premades self-report 70%+ win-rates. The idea that that is acceptable in what SQEX promotes as its entry-level, casual PvP mode is simply laughable.