Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[saucyshortcake]

lmao his next stream just happens to be scheduled for the next day shatter runs!

but no guys he's not just a one trick pony.

[Mawlzy]

lmao his next stream just happens to be scheduled for the next day shatter runs!

but no guys he's not just a one trick pony.

What puzzles me about streaming Shatter is that it's by far the least popular map. You'd think a streamer would wish to optimize viewership? Not that I know anything about it. It'd never occur to me that people would want to watch me playing a video game when they could be playing games themselves.

[Aravell]

These individuals have every right to min-max the mode, despite the fact they are damaging it. Whether SQEX tolerates this into 7.1, we'll have to wait and see. But as you say, the price these commanders will pay is being nearly universally despised. They're just going to have to live with that.

The commander hate only seems to be a thing on NA/EU, honestly.

JP has at least 5 commanders last time I checked, they play the same way with chat macros, markers and burst countdowns. The only difference is that they're loved on JP, a lot of people thank a good commander after a win. So no, commanders aren't exactly universally despised.

Regarding 7.1 though, didn't they promise an FL overhaul? Guess we'll find out what that's about.

[Mawlzy]

The commander hate only seems to be a thing on NA/EU, honestly.

JP has at least 5 commanders last time I checked, they play the same way with chat macros, markers and burst countdowns. The only difference is that they're loved on JP, a lot of people thank a good commander after a win. So no, commanders aren't exactly universally despised.

Regarding 7.1 though, didn't they promise an FL overhaul? Guess we'll find out what that's about.

That's fair. I was speaking about NA (Aether in particular) since that's where I play. My guess is on the JP servers, commanders respect their team-mates, rather than holding the shocking views towards them expressed recently in this thread. I don't think anyone in the world appreciates the idea of a self-appointed gatekeeper who wishes to "beat" their one-dimensional playstyle into players, such that they either drink the Kool-Aid and are accepted or are forced out of the game.

I dunno, people sometimes invoke "cultural differences" to explain such things, but I'm reluctant to do so since I've never lived in Japan. A simpler explanation may simply be that the JP commanders are pleasant people.

FWIW I will frequently thank a shot-caller after a match if they have helped the team in a respectful way. But there's a world of difference between occasional reminders of the score and where an S just popped to the belligerent ordering and chat spamming of those commanders invariably playing DRK in a premade. Coupled with the fact that many of us enjoy the matches when there is no such commander, and find them tedious at best when there is, we arrive at the current stand-off.

I think X.1 has traditionally been when PvP gets some attention. At the very least one would hope the devs can see the FL meta is stale and do something to shake it up.

[saucyshortcake]

The commander hate only seems to be a thing on NA/EU, honestly.

JP has at least 5 commanders last time I checked, they play the same way with chat macros, markers and burst countdowns. The only difference is that they're loved on JP, a lot of people thank a good commander after a win. So no, commanders aren't exactly universally despised.

Regarding 7.1 though, didn't they promise an FL overhaul? Guess we'll find out what that's about.

it is very different for us. the commanders actually play for the competition, vs teams that have the other commanders.

this also happens on all maps. most games, if the other teams do not have any clear command, the commander plays more relaxed, and does not aim to just wipe other teams over and over to inflate ego.

there is a very different culture because it is promoting competition between two organized force, which is much more enjoyable to both teams.

NA/EU have very few commander. so the team who gets one will almost always win by a landslide. it is not fun for any team.

[Aravell]

I think X.1 has traditionally been when PvP gets some attention. At the very least one would hope the devs can see the FL meta is stale and do something to shake it up.

Oh I do agree that the FL meta is stale right now. It's boring to see DRK + (WAR/RPR) + DRG in every match.

Patch 7.1 might bring some kit reworks to fit in the new stuff though, so let's hope it breathes some new life into FL.

[Mawlzy]

Oh I do agree that the FL meta is stale right now. It's boring to see DRK + (WAR/RPR) + DRG in every match.

Patch 7.1 might bring some kit reworks to fit in the new stuff though, so let's hope it breathes some new life into FL.

Let's hope, indeed. Unfortunately balancing both solo jobs and 4-person stacks in a mode where LB coordination is key is a daunting task. Particularly if the balance is based on CC.

[Aravell]

it is very different for us. the commanders actually play for the competition, vs teams that have the other commanders.

this also happens on all maps. most games, if the other teams do not have any clear command, the commander plays more relaxed, and does not aim to just wipe other teams over and over to inflate ego.

there is a very different culture because it is promoting competition between two organized force, which is much more enjoyable to both teams.

NA/EU have very few commander. so the team who gets one will almost always win by a landslide. it is not fun for any team.

I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

[Mawlzy]

I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

Very much so. And this does happen on NA sometimes in the absence of premades. This is why we've floated everything from matchmaking algorithms to reducing rewards. But I'd suggest it's precisely those battles where there is little commanding where people are compelled to look at the map and figure out how the mode works. You learn absolutely nothing by racing around after a "D" with a 3-2-1 countdown banging in your shell-like.

It also illustrates another flaw in Olivia's logic. We do have this "rouletter" population on NA, many of whom have no desire to get better. But they are not going to leave because they constantly get curbstomped! They're there for the XP and don't give a hoot about what transpires on the battlefield. The people it will drive off are those with potential and a willingness to learn, who conclude (not incorrectly) that NA FL matches are currently dominated by a curbstomping clique.

In other words, Olivia's offensive statement that she will drive out the weakies by beating them with her premade barrage will never work. It'll just drive away players with the desire to get better, but who don't respond well to The One True Path being "beaten" into them.

As we used to say in Kansas, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Similarly, you attract a new crop of players through engaging, balanced matches, not cynical noob-farming, as those on Dynamis can attest.

[saucyshortcake]

I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

it is much more of a population that wants to be there, to enjoy the game. it is less about skill(frontline is very low skill environment) and more about player engagement and attention.

NA is very different. in JP, you will see many of the same players from game to game. in NA, you can play 2-3 games, and see almost no repeat characters.

this is also a bad time for comparison though. many players are back for expansion and using frontline to level only.