Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mawlzy]

snip

I stand corrected. There's one person not on my DC who can do it.

[Mawlzy]

I stand corrected. There's one person not on my DC who can do it.

Oop. let me correct my correction. While I can't confirm that the disruptors were following your prescription (which is interesting, thank you), I have seen DRK+ premade disruption from a MNK premade. And I'd accept that four monks don't need to be in a premade for them to pull off the play.

Chat revealed that the DRK+ premade and the MNKs were all part of the same clique and once again using a public mode as a scrim opportunity, showing complete contempt for other players which is their signature.

As to your anti-DRK+ premade, again it's genuinely helpful. But I can't help being amused by the long list of reasons you give why anyone other than a PvP savant such as yourself cannot actually pull this off in practice.

[Mawlzy]

People mark premades, but premades go and mark me as a priority target when they realize I'm becoming a problem.

I think I'm missing something important. How can you tell you've been marked by an enemy team?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I think I'm missing something important. How can you tell you've been marked by an enemy team?

Not AnotherPerson, but I can probably answer that to a degree: Hunch(?).

I personally felt the same way at some point after I've been that MNK who disables enemy's DRK/RPR/DNC/AST repeatedly and denying them the easy kills plenty of times. There were 'those times' when I start noticing enemy's disruptor (usually PLD, WAR, or MNK) starts tailing me to an abnormally frequent degree and would often hyperfocus me when I made my intent too clear: to Meteodrive their key players. Did I get any remotely close to their group? These disruptors would just bum-rush me, try to distract me, or at the very least refuse to jump in for the kills until I'm engaged elsewhere/nowhere to be seen nearby, consistently. In addition to that, I am for the most part aren't even a high BH nor skillful MNK player (I'm always BH0 to BH2 at best as MNK lol).

That seemed to be all too much effort to disrupt a single player. If I'm that insignificant to them, these 'premades' would've just put "Ignore Target" marker on me like they usually do to solitary PLDs who rush to the crowds in order to bait the mass from targeting their core alliance. But clearly that's not what happened in those cases.

[Scintilla]

Meanwhile, if the DRGs actually use their LB, that's a burst commitment already

Contrary to what I said above, this bit now makes more sense if used solely as a personal guide. I would still disagree that it's a sufficient attack warning for the reasons I mentioned above. Marking the DRK will give yourself and the wider team more notice of a likely attack incoming, giving you time to start spreading out (if the map allows), but I agree that the full and final commitment would be the DRG LB. It wouldn't give you enough time to escape (the DRK will already be at the front of the group), but it would be a final commitment sign for an individual player wanting to counter.

But as you said, the DRK premade is the nucleus, so they usually mark the target they jump on, the team will then focus on that marked target.

Perhaps this is DC differences as I can't remember seeing a premade DRK mark their target. There are occasions when focus targets are marked, but I haven't seen it used in the situation of a premade.
Waymarker use, the premade DRK marking themselves, Salted Earth cooldown updates, sometimes burst countdowns. But not a target mark.

Sadly 'just attack xxx job at xxx time' is fine in theory, not so good in practice. It needs very specific timing and an element of luck. It's not remotely as straightforward as it sounds. And even if luck is on your side for one attack, it might not be the same for the next one, or the one after that.
Not to mention how few players in a random match will even try the counter job. You'll be lucky to get more than one.

All of this because 4 players made the decision that a dynamic, competitive game isn't important.

[Mawlzy]

Perhaps this is DC differences as I can't remember seeing a premade DRK mark their target. There are occasions when focus targets are marked, but I haven't seen it used in the situation of a premade.
Waymarker use, the premade DRK marking themselves, Salted Earth cooldown updates, sometimes burst countdowns. But not a target mark.

I've never seen a DRK mark their dive target on Aether, but this is actually consistent with the premade mindset. In addition to the joy of curb-stomping, they place great stock on padding. (Source: Discord as per.) In this worldview, the DRK doesn't need to mark the target since it's standard for their premade partners to use the "target-the-target-of-focused" macro. They don't want the bit-player randos stealing their kills.

I genuinely think I disappoint them when, using the same macro, I get a couple of KOs and a handful of assists when I manage to get the timing right.

The only effective counter to selfish egotists has to come from SE.

[Mistress_Irika]

Seeing that I have a few new pvp players that are dragging me into frontlines because of my KDA (2/2/1x) and certain quiet veterans that are pushing me to join discord...I think I'm going to invade Aether.

[AnotherPerson]

Oop. let me correct my correction. While I can't confirm that the disruptors were following your prescription (which is interesting, thank you), I have seen DRK+ premade disruption from a MNK premade. And I'd accept that four monks don't need to be in a premade for them to pull off the play.

Chat revealed that the DRK+ premade and the MNKs were all part of the same clique and once again using a public mode as a scrim opportunity, showing complete contempt for other players which is their signature.

As to your anti-DRK+ premade, again it's genuinely helpful. But I can't help being amused by the long list of reasons you give why anyone other than a PvP savant such as yourself cannot actually pull this off in practice.

Np, I'm glad it helped. You don't need to be a PvP Savant to pull it off, (after I share some of my tricks I see them implemented in my games the next day and good attempts being made). The people who usually say they can't do it consistently are generally the ones who don't know about meeting those conditions because they simply aren't aware of them. It's more about lacking the same depth of game mechanics that prevent people from seeing different opportunities. Ex: Like how healers with 2.5s cast times in past expansions in PvE are still mobile if they slidecast to move across a raid with slow mechanics to reposition without losing dps uptime, but you wouldn't know that if you don't know game mechanics like slidecasting. A SCH in PvE could be using Ruin II instead, which limits their possibilities and vision in fights. It just so happens that PvP usually have a lot more possibilities because there's plenty of extra depth of game mechanics, but there isn't a lot of varied content for players to actively engage in them to realize they exist. Most people don't need the full list of reasons to why they can't do this in practice, just the most obvious ones to kickstart the process and then familiarize the process for themselves. I just list a couple more because I've been in enough situations where someone would complain because they did #X and #Y right, but neglected to do #Z because I didn't put it in the list, but it'll probably backfire on me anyway because I didn't think about listing the rest of the fringe cases like #W and #V when people start improvising and adapting.

I think I'm missing something important. How can you tell you've been marked by an enemy team?

I was able to confirm a couple of games where some people I know ended up on the enemy team and they shared their experience post-game. There are days where I just queue into FL for hours, and sometimes we happen to both end up in the same game while queueing solo, so it doesn't occur to us that we were on opposing sides. A lot of people I know play FL and sometimes talk on the FC lawn because it was a memorable one for them (members of the FC who create a premade just to do dailies with friends), or just to vent from a bad experience. Sometimes people talk post-match on discord if the match is memorable and they want to share the experience. There's this time when they were talking about how they marked this Samurai and they sent the entire squad out there to chase them down, and he escaped a ridiculous chase, managed to elixir, and got them with the LB after stalling for so long. The more I listen, the more I realize they were talking about the game I just had, the Grand Company I was just in, and... uh. That was me doing a bit of trolling and running laps around them. Oops. If they're reading this, I think it's alright... they don't know that's one of my PvP alts. XD

But yeah, otherwise it's pretty much what Rein said. All those games with a marking have similar signs and I can usually tell due to my playstyle (I intentionally control how much LoS I like to attract when I engage after experimenting around, so it becomes a clear indicator when my aggro control is very off). If you're disrupting the commander or key figures so heavily to the point you're making a significant impact, you can feel and tell if you have been marked in some way because the way the opposing alliance plays become significantly different midway, especially when many enemy targets who never went after you suddenly start only focusing you instead of some easier target. Just like how some people would mark the DRK + a premade and make it known in chat, the pressure when you get marked is vastly different and because basic LoS no longer works to the same degree. The aggro you draw is noticeably different even when you were able to stay hidden before, even without BH. Of course, there's also different ways of marking too - sometimes it's just a couple of skilled players who marked you (less openings, but usually you don't have a literal marker, just 'marked' by enemies) and sometimes it's an entire alliance (more chaotic, but can be easier to escape, but there is a distinct difference in pressure and LoS even if you take specific steps to reduce the aggro with positioning makes it obvious that you're being marked in some way, via chat or with a literal marker). As a player who likes to play mind games, sometimes there are very obvious signs that you would get marked by a group of players because they'll play to specifically bait me into stepping onto their trap and the way they position themselves all indicate that they're waiting for it. Likewise, when I notice them I also try to bait them into chasing me or to alleviate pressure off my team (I like to do some reverse trolling, keep them guessing, sometimes to see my limits and their limits to effectively gauge the disparity/difference, and sometimes just see how they respond so I can figure a new strategy later on or in another game to counter it). Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. Or just chill and let Llymlaen take the wheel.

[Mawlzy]

I suspect the only reason I get occasional attention is because people don't like my opinions.

[EvianYmir89]

I suspect the only reason I get occasional attention is because people don't like my opinions.

If people are purposefully targeting you cause they’re mad at your opinions, they’ve got bigger issues to deal with.