Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Valence]

I won't claim that I've read the whole thread. Here is my current view on FLs, especially having engaged into them a lot more during the current mogtome event:

I'll use the word premades liberally to describe premade groups consistently made with the attempt to win by using certain job combinations (around a DRK mostly likely) and coordination in order to stomp half an enemy team to dust. This doesn't include most of the light parties (or duos/trios) queuing up casually with friends playing their favorite non meta jobs, or just not synchronizing or using meta plays.


Personal experience

Yes, I have friends that got pissed by premades and decided to not bother much anymore. But most of them just don't care or even noticed. That's how clueless most of the pvp casuals in the intricacies of the mode are. They're queuing for their daily, and they have genuine fun with it, like most dailies. This is why I do believe the idea that it pushes away many people away from it is exaggerated. What tends to push away newcomers to the mode is the utter chaos and making sense of what's happening, and it's inherent to the mode on its own. The day they improve this new player experience to actually upgrade player retention beyond the daily roulette, perhaps the negative impact those premades are having on casuals would become more of a thing. Or perhaps i'm totally misreading the casual pvp base idk.

Fact of the matter is, that most people who like to complain and bring up moral arguments about how harmful everything is to the casual playerbase are actually self projecting, for the very reason they're good or at least decent, veteran pvp/FL players and they have enough clues on the dreadful impact premades can have. I've seen an explosion of more consistent premades grinding everything to dust notably on seal rock or shatter in the current event where you end up with 2 teams with close to 0 points and 1 with a victory.

I've been on both sides of it, the receiving end is at least somewhat funny in that I can use anti premade jobs like MNK to just kill them one by one (if the team is following, not always a given...), but this also forces me to play specific jobs in order to even enjoy the games in question. Am I gonna lose still? Oh yeah, definitely. But at least I can enjoy toying with their best players, that's the silver lining. Being on the side of the premade when you're not in the premade is the worst experience ever for a competent solo queuer for two main reasons: one, as a loose field commander, nobody needs me in that regard, and two, even if I try to participate by playing DNC, or any job helping the premade to secure their kitchen sinks, most of the time I arrive too late to matter, or my only purpose is relegated to clean up the 2 half dead enemies left. The premade already has everything it needs to operate their kitchen sink and vacuum all the opponents into dust. You as a solo queue player, is literally irrelevant, and it's the most boring thing ever.

My take on this: premades are actually harmful to the enjoyment of the mode for solo queue pvp vets, not for casuals. I'm not gonna say it doesn't grind the gears of casual dying like that, but it's just not the same for the aforementioned reasons.

Counterpoint: solo queue veterans could make their own premade groups, and I'm sure some aren't opposed to the idea (myself included), but it's like telling a CC player that they should drop all solo queue in CC and only partake into scrims or LPs. It's not practical for obvious reasons (and I also like playing solo because your premade friends aren't always there you know?).

Premades

On the matter of premades, I'm not going to fall for the low hanging fruit and blame them for all the woes in the world. They're playing with the tools they're given by SE in a pvp mode in order to secure victories. I don't know personally how they're even having fun with this because it reminds me strongly of the old 8 man full BH5 ninja premades seal clubbing during SB before the party size nerf, which was awful, where you had one group literally running around and clubbing to death casuals just hitting crystals in shatter for example, eventually leading to non premade teams just staying in their spawn and wait until it was over, and doing it again and again game after game until the premade got bored and stopped queuing (we're not rendered there yet fortunately, count your blessings). But if that's how they're having fun, then so be it.

I also do not want SE to ever remove the possibility to queue up as parties of friends, even if it would honestly probably half fix the problem by making a sizable sacrifice in social play.

Discrepency between casuals and tryhards

This leads me to the next point which is many premade players actually hoping for people to become better and learn the tools to deal with the meta, which, spoiler alert, is highly unlikely to ever happen and is at best, wishful thinking. Not only does it forces people to play specific jobs to adjust, but it also counts on the fact that casuals or even solo queue vets even want to play that meta in the first place (which is a completely different kind of game). The idea that every casual player will suddenly try and look for premade groups before queuing for their daily is frankly ludicrous. The idea that premade groups will spontaneously form up and be able to synchronize LB meta plays is ludicrous.

The problem is the mode

We can complain however we want about premades ruining games or solo queuers too lazy to find their own premades, the problem remains the mode and how it is designed and maintained. I'll die on that hill.

[YouWereIndicted]

snip

Ah. I see...so we do agree on most things we just have different expectations on the playerbase. Agree to disagree, then. Apologies if I came off as hostile, was not my intent. But I for one am a person where if I am doing group content I always give it my all, no matter what it is (hence why I mentioned competitive spirit, by no means was I saying FL is competitive haha) so my viewpoint will stay as it is. I believe everyone should take the time to learn and improve at anything they engage in especially if it involves other people. If I was able to do it as a newer player there is no excuse for others. Of course, I have a heavy PvP background, regardless of that fact.

But you are right, people will not improve and in turn it may or may not cause them to not have fun as a result. I cannot control other people though, only myself. That is their prerogative. This is unfortunately an issue in this game in all of the PvP modes. Yes, even Ranked sometimes regardless of elo. I've not much else to say on the matter or else it would sound like I'm venting my frustration, which is not the case. Trust me, I am very much used to the slackers in these game modes haha I just adapt to them and gg go next if needed. Hence why I included a screenshot of a game I had in my last post. But yes, toxicity gets us nowhere and not once have I acted so. Most of the time I am silent as a crypt. I can handle an L even if its from feeding teammates. I hope you can find some enjoyment in the mode still. As do I, even if it means I have to find likeminded PvPers and premade if I have to. Or change my mindset, whatever the case may be.

If you're on aether feel free to hit me up! Sounds like you already joined some groups, but the more the merrier!

I am on Aether, it would be my pleasure to group up sometime and meet other likeminded PvPers. Guess I am eating my words of saying I won't be playing the mode anymore, haha. If you happen to run into a guy from Jenova with a funny costume and Adventure Plate...that is me

[Windfire]

If you're on aether feel free to hit me up! Sounds like you already joined some groups, but the more the merrier!

Inviting a bot runner to play with you? That's a big yikes, character name was Bgbhbhj Dfdvdfvdf(mysteriously gone with this mornings ban wave), so yeah, might want to check char names rather then account.

[Mawlzy]

My take on this: premades are actually harmful to the enjoyment of the mode for solo queue pvp vets, not for casuals. I'm not gonna say it doesn't grind the gears of casual dying like that, but it's just not the same for the aforementioned reasons.

This is entire post is great and I hope everyone interested in this topic reads it thoughtfully. Your point about vets projecting (claiming casuals were being driven off by premades) really hit home; I suspect I'm guilty of that. As you explain, solo vets have the worst experience when on the same team as the premade. It's akin to running an uninteresting dungeon for the 2000th time as a caster when all the trash mobs are cleaned up by ranged.

The commanders of premades have made it very clear they don't care that they create a miserable experience for solo vets. And thus skilled players leave the mode. The mode may be the root problem, but that problem is being deepened significantly by a tiny fraction of the player base.

Anyway, thanks Valence, your post is a beautifully clear description of the issues I've been bleating about. I can now quit posting on the topic. And probably quit FL.

[OliviaLugria]

Inviting a bot runner to play with you? That's a big yikes, character name was Bgbhbhj Dfdvdfvdf(mysteriously gone with this mornings ban wave), so yeah, might want to check char names rather then account.

Are those different? Sorry, I don't know much about the fourms, still pretty new.

[Windfire]

Yup, if you look to the right of the character pic, it says the name of the character being used to post with (along with world & main job). For instance my forum tag is Windfire but my char name is Suri Obinata.

[YouWereIndicted]

Inviting a bot runner to play with you? That's a big yikes, character name was Bgbhbhj Dfdvdfvdf(mysteriously gone with this mornings ban wave), so yeah, might want to check char names rather then account.

Bot runner...wat. I change my forum accounts due to privacy concerns LOL. Dealt with some strange folk on this game, it's just a measure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've played with Olivia before and I'm sure if they saw my main they would recognize me. That "Bgbhbhj Dfdvdfvdf" account is a filler account I use for my FC for housing. All of my accounts are on Jenova. o_O wat. Being accused of botting when I'm just a lowly sprout...there's a first time for everything I guess.

Aaaaaaanyway. I've said everything I've needed to be said about this topic, I shall take my leave now.

[Chasingstars]

Yeah, until they do something about bad players who don't care to improve or work as a unit this mode is screwed. A friend of mine is quite new and decided they wanted the Field Commander Coat. They had an optimistic view until they caught onto how Frontlines truly is. Despite being new they were always right up there with me in top 5 damage dealt on my team (which shows how easy doing the bare minimum is) and they also realized how many leechers are in the mode and refuse to fight which was frustrating to them. Nothing like seeing your team wipe to the same obvious burst countless of times without guarding, healing or repositioning then complaining about premades, lol. Yeah, they're the problem, surely. But this same team will ignore the first place team that is 20 points from winning and run to a useless node that will do nothing for us and leave all the players who are fighting with the other alliance(s) to die.

Same thing happened to my friend who wanted to win and just get a Field Commander Coat, but they got so fed up with pvp and also drained from statics for savage/extreme, they felt the whole game wasn't worth playing. Their interest is just dead. As having unfun things does create what is known as a churn rate, the higher that is, the more you lose players.

Premades are just people like me who got tired of dealing with anchor teammates and want to reliably fight without flipping a coin if your team is going to back you up or not. They aren't the problem...can we please stop talking about them already, lol.

Maybe if certain pvp jobs get reworked to be more tolerable in the frontline environment.

[Rueby]

Honestly, premades are awful, nothing is worse than seeing your entire alliance get pulled by a drk and melts infront of your eyes, it doesn't matter if you're a solo vet or a casual trying their best. So, you're forced to try to play something to TRY and counter the premade but you'll most likely fail because the odds are usually stacked against you. Ultimately, it's pointless really and not fun at all to try and spend the game shadowing one of the premade guys knowing your team is gonna get rolled anyway. It doesn't matter if you have 69 macros or not.

I used to love frontlines but now I only do it to get my series level to 25 and never touch it again, I don't even see any of the solo regulars I saw back in the time either and it really makes me sad. I don't know how SE managed to make frontline worse but they deserve a medal for their truly valiant efforts.

[Niroken]

I used to love frontlines but now I only do it to get my series level to 25 and never touch it again, I don't even see any of the solo regulars I saw back in the time either and it really makes me sad. I don't know how SE managed to make frontline worse but they deserve a medal for their truly valiant efforts.

They did a big overhaul for their Feast replacement and barely thought how such an overhaul would effect large scale battles. They found out and proceeded to barely fix anything. If they put as much effort in their large scale pvp as their small scale, it would have made a world of difference.