Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Aravell]

All we can really hope for is that the new skills being added will shake up the meta.

While I don't find the DRK meta a big problem and I believe that it can be dealt with easily by just being aware of your surroundings, I do find it incredibly stale to just queue into FL and see DRK/AST/DRG every single match and I was hoping for an interesting change to the FL meta.

[Mawlzy]

All we can really hope for is that the new skills being added will shake up the meta.

While I don't find the DRK meta a big problem and I believe that it can be dealt with easily by just being aware of your surroundings, I do find it incredibly stale to just queue into FL and see DRK/AST/DRG every single match and I was hoping for an interesting change to the FL meta.

Agreed. It's almost like SE assumes people only play one match a day, so they don't need to shake it up regularly. And they'll end up being right as people who like the mode drift into the one-and-done bucket.

[EvianYmir89]

I disagree. In 3 matches today, the opposing teams had 3-4 drks spamming salted earth and then the dumb*** aoe spam crap. I fully hope they have separated the sandbox finally to make it a more even playing field

[Cidel]

Anyone else feeling deflated and despondent after the live letter?

Uhh. No? I know I've said it before that people seriously need to reel-in their expectations on what the devs deign to address in 7.1's PvP and how they go about them.

There were several positive noises coming from SE the last few months about giving PvP/FL some love and resources. Instead this "doing something in 7.1 that will be added to in 7.2" sounds like kicking the can down the road. Again.

X.1 has always been the PvP update, and yet despite the lengthening patch cycles this feels like we're being shuffled to the bottom of the deck.

I didn't watch the live letter. There was a summary list on reddit (which is all we really need for most of these anyway, since the Live Letters are usually 60% aizuchi and pointless ramblings) that had the main points for PvP I guess:

• Extensive updates to PvP action execution and hit detection; for example, players will be able to better react to certain opponent actions while the action animation is in progress
• New PvP actions for every job except Viper and Pictomancer (since they were just added); some jobs will feel quite different in PvP
• Improvements for Red Sands and Cloud Nine Crystalline Conflict arenas
• Balance adjustments for Frontline and Rival Wings modes (additional major updates for Frontlines are planned for 7.2)
• Additional information on PvP job changes to come in the Part 2 Live Letter

That doesn't seem like getting kicked down the road again. At least not how I'm reading it listed here. Balance adjustments for Frontlines and Rival Wings are coming in 7.1. "Additional" major updates for FL are planned for 7.2. Assuming the individual who made the list of the LL summary didn't grammatically typo anything, it sounds more to me that adjustments are in fact, coming in 7.1. And FL is getting more thereafter in 7.2...

I guess the mistake I made was being excited for potential changes.

???

Again, or am I reading the summary wrong and are there not changes coming? Or are we mad that everything isn't being dropped into 7.1?

[Mawlzy]

Maybe the problem is I watched it.

[Divinemights]

Anyone else feeling deflated and despondent after the live letter?
There were several positive noises coming from SE the last few months about giving PvP/FL some love and resources. Instead this "doing something in 7.1 that will be added to in 7.2" sounds like kicking the can down the road. Again.
X.1 has always been the PvP update, and yet despite the lengthening patch cycles this feels like we're being shuffled to the bottom of the deck.
I guess the mistake I made was being excited for potential changes.

FF14 PvP balancing is different than WoW; they do not need to nerf/buff patch by patch because there is no stats involved.
If you are expecting nerf DRK, result will not you are expecting.
Whenever they are introducing new actions into PvP in x.1 patch, entire PvP ecosystem will change
New meta will establish, old king will fallen and new king will rise.
They have specifically said they are balancing Frontline and Rival Wing and it is expect there will be change to Limit Break.
People will find new thing to complain
Remember, before NA discovers DK, this forum is cry like river about Summoner after initial release of 6.1

[Mawlzy]

FF14 PvP balancing is different than WoW; they do not need to nerf/buff patch by patch because there is no stats involved.
If you are expecting nerf DRK, result will not you are expecting.
Whenever they are introducing new actions into PvP in x.1 patch, entire PvP ecosystem will change
New meta will establish, old king will fallen and new king will rise.
They have specifically said they are balancing Frontline and Rival Wing and it is expect there will be change to Limit Break.
People will find new thing to complain
Remember, before NA discovers DK, this forum is cry like river about Summoner after initial release of 6.1

If the entire PvP ecosystem changes, I'll be extremely happy.

I don't think the lack of stats means rebalance is not needed. Digital card games get rebalanced constantly because a solved meta is a boring meta. It's surely not too much to ask that once every 2 years the pot is stirred? Maybe add a map rather than removing one? Although I'll make an exception if they axe Shatter, or at least switch to an 8-hour map rotation so I don't lose one day in three.

"Balance adjustments" might be good news, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if this is limited to DR for a handful of jobs getting toggled by +/-5%.

90% of the recurring complaints in this thread were not even orthogonally addressed in the presentation, which came across in real time as vague and rushed.

If the changes to action execution and hit detection actually work, that is potentially exciting.

I guess my gloominess stems from an assumption that, if SE had any interesting or substantive changes to share they would have done more than wave their hands. Maybe that'll come in Part 2.

[Archeron]

The new information we've been provided is extremely vague.

Job adjustments are coming to everything except Viper and Picto. Fantastic. What does that mean to us? Nothing but more to speculate on.
Map adjustments. Presumably this means the return of Borderland ruins, and Astragalos for Rival Wings? Adjustments to North spawn of Seal Rock? Again, only speculation, no details provided.
Hit detection changes. Sounds positive, but again, need to see it firsthand and hope it works as intended.

As much as I'd love to be optimistic, they've provided us very little info to work with, and as I predicted in other threads, the update is likely going to be partially implemented into later patches. The key thing I was hoping to see was that they would be more responsive to the needs of PvP. Changes done, as they are needed. Not delayed until the next major patch. I do not want a repeat of broken jobs, for instance Ninja being basically unkillable for 6 months, Damage reduction on melee being completely broken, and the Shatter Rework saga that would have been resolved if they had play tested the map PRIOR to implementation. PvP has potential in this game, I hope they finally stop wasting it, now that they understand that they need content to hold people over between major patches.

As far as I'm concerned however as long as Dark Knight gets hit by a train and nerfed so hard it gets buried 18 feet underground, I'll consider it a win. I just find it very enjoyable when Dark Knight players shed tears - Womp, womp. The circus is always hiring.

[Mawlzy]

Anyone notice FL queue times getting longer the last week or two? It's been my experience on Aether.

[Divinemights]

As much as I'd love to be optimistic, they've provided us very little info to work with, and as I predicted in other threads, the update is likely going to be partially implemented into later patches. The key thing I was hoping to see was that they would be more responsive to the needs of PvP. Changes done, as they are needed. Not delayed until the next major patch. I do not want a repeat of broken jobs, for instance Ninja being basically unkillable for 6 months, Damage reduction on melee being completely broken, and the Shatter Rework saga that would have been resolved if they had play tested the map PRIOR to implementation. PvP has potential in this game, I hope they finally stop wasting it, now that they understand that they need content to hold people over between major patches.
As far as I'm concerned however as long as Dark Knight gets hit by a train and nerfed so hard it gets buried 18 feet underground, I'll consider it a win. I just find it very enjoyable when Dark Knight players shed tears - Womp, womp. The circus is always hiring.

You sounds like you have never experience a X.1 patch before.
They never go details with they are going to do.
Even when 6.1 PvP revamp, the only info we got is "PvP Actions revamped and Limit Break Actions for each job" in PLL 70
There will be changes and each job will play differently with new PvP actions

If you are expecting DRK to be nerf to the ground, no, it will not happen.
Every expansion had a King and they never becomes unplayable after X.1 adjustment, Warrior in 2.x, Machinest in 3.x, etc...
Not to worry, you will soon find new thing to complain about, that I can ensure you.

Most of important, FF14 does not have PTR server like WoW, you won't get details of changes at all from MMO Champion data mining.
WoW has PTR build for data mining and FF14 has PLL to gives you a brief summary.