Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Aravell]

I wouldn't be so certain that there will be a BiS trait to pick. This is 'Player vs Player' after all, we're not an AI that behaves the same in every match.

I'd be happy with the system if it enables vastly different playstyles and counter potentials. But then again, this is SE, so the traits will probably be cookie cutter +damage or -cooldown.

[FatCatEnjoyer]

after a certain amount of matches it does feel like playing against AI sometimes ������

[Valence]

Oh bloody great, as if we don't have enough players screeching about how everyone has to "play their way or else", now we're getting a system where if you're not picking the BiS trait for the meta, you'll have even more of them breathing down your neck. If there's one thing I've learned from playing MMOs over the years, selectable talents/traits never plays nice with a community, *especially* the competitive part of it. I suppose one might argue to give Square-Enix the benefit of a doubt that they can make it work... but, like, I've seen what that BOAD has gotten us so far, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

We've had that for the whole duration of HW to ShB pvp and I've never seen anybody giving a flying fuck what additional abilities other people took. Sure, some were absolute trash like the backstep, but otherwise it didn't change anything.
However I'll keep my judgement for when we actually get to see those actions, because if they really do intend those to literally change the tides more than on an individual level like in previous history, then perhaps the ones people pick could become too important to pass under people's scrutiny.

[Archeron]

Trait selection is something I don't really trust SE to competently implement even if it may have positive effects on breaking meta's.

The simple fact is that SE has built a reputation of ignoring major flaws on Frontlines for 6 months at a time. They ignored feedback we had been leaving for years, and they even removed more content than they added during Endwalker. There is no way anyone should have ANY faith that these actions come out initially balanced, and they aren't in immediate need of rebalancing within the first week, and nothing gets done for months to fix the initial issues. They can make all these grand promises but they're truly nothing but air until they demonstrate that they are willing to implement fixes to exploits/balancing quickly and effectively, and with a new system and traits there is a lot to go wrong.

[Mawlzy]

I tend to be reluctant to report anyone in FL, but good gravy, when someone both refuses to engage the enemy and spends the match typing gibberish in chat, it has to be done. Mogtome event once again shows that as the rewards go up, so does lethargic play.

[Cidel]

I tend to be reluctant to report anyone in FL, but good gravy, when someone both refuses to engage the enemy and spends the match typing gibberish in chat, it has to be done. Mogtome event once again shows that as the rewards go up, so does lethargic play.

If Moogle Treasure Trove rewards went down for 3rd (last) place (to like, only one mogtome), and maybe went up for first place by the same amount (2nd place can stay the same), I don't think there'd be as much lethargic people. But the devs are deathly afraid to give such discrepancies between first and dead last. And no, it wouldn't kill the mode- FL queues are just fine without mogtomes the rest of the year.

[Aravell]

If Moogle Treasure Trove rewards went down for 3rd (last) place (to like, only one mogtome), and maybe went up for first place by the same amount (2nd place can stay the same), I don't think there'd be as much lethargic people. But the devs are deathly afraid to give such discrepancies between first and dead last. And no, it wouldn't kill the mode- FL queues are just fine without mogtomes the rest of the year.

It wouldn't kill the mode but it would encourage people to ignore 1st place and secure 2nd place.

If 1st place is already far ahead, instead of teaming up and taking down the 1st place team, the 2nd and 3rd place would be far more likely to start attacking each other to secure 2nd place if the 3rd place rewards were vastly reduced.

[Cidel]

It wouldn't kill the mode but it would encourage people to ignore 1st place and secure 2nd place.

If 1st place is already far ahead, instead of teaming up and taking down the 1st place team, the 2nd and 3rd place would be far more likely to start attacking each other to secure 2nd place if the 3rd place rewards were vastly reduced.

I disagree that it would encourage people to ignore 1st place. As it is now (and usually always has been), people with barely a lead (especially at the start) often tend to get focused on when available. At that point you're making the bigger assumption that people won't contest 1st place for twice as many mogtomes than getting just 1 or 2 more mogtomes for securing 2nd. You could just as well make the same hypothetical argument that the larger reward for 1st place motivates people to actually want to focus on dragging the 1st place team down.

If 1st place is ever that far ahead where the general consensus of the teams are "fight for 2nd," then there's already a fundamental skill issue between the losing teams that probably wouldn't have been remedied by suddenly deciding they have to focus them down. Also, there's no achievement rewards for coming in 2nd x amount of times nor do the standard tomestones awarded for queuing differ between finishing 2nd and 3rd, so at that point you're saying that only a 1 or 2 mogtome difference is worth not teaming-up against 1st place.

I'll admit that 2nd and 3rd place teams fighting each other already happens, although it is more because of spite, tunnel-vision or general ignorance.

[Aravell]

I disagree that it would encourage people to ignore 1st place. As it is now (and usually always has been), people with barely a lead (especially at the start) often tend to get focused on when available. At that point you're making the bigger assumption that people won't contest 1st place for twice as many mogtomes than getting just 1 or 2 more mogtomes for securing 2nd. You could just as well make the same hypothetical argument that the larger reward for 1st place motivates people to actually want to focus on dragging the 1st place team down.

If 1st place is ever that far ahead where the general consensus of the teams are "fight for 2nd," then there's already a fundamental skill issue between the losing teams that probably wouldn't have been remedied by suddenly deciding they have to focus them down. Also, there's no achievement rewards for coming in 2nd x amount of times nor do the standard tomestones awarded for queuing differ between finishing 2nd and 3rd, so at that point you're saying that only a 1 or 2 mogtome difference is worth not teaming-up against 1st place.

I'll admit that 2nd and 3rd place teams fighting each other already happens, although it is more because of spite, tunnel-vision or general ignorance.

I'm not making an argument one way or another, I'm just pointing out that people will always take the path of least resistance.

So if 1st place gives 10 tomes, 2nd place gives 5 and 3rd place gives 1. If 1st place is far ahead or even just 100 points ahead but they've won engagements with both other teams before, the 2nd and 3rd place teams will very likely just turn on each other to claw out 2nd place rather than fight the team that beat them before.

This is very much a skill/experience issue, but it's also very likely to happen. After all, many wouldn't want to risk attacking the 1st place team while in 2nd place and trust that the 3rd place team will not backstab them to take the +4 tomes.

The difference is thar you're optimistic that people will go for the biggest reward and choose the correct decision, but I'm pessimistic because I've seen so many matches where 3rd place pinches us when we're 2nd place instead of attacking 1st place, which allowed 1st place to win for free.

[Mawlzy]

If Moogle Treasure Trove rewards went down for 3rd (last) place (to like, only one mogtome), and maybe went up for first place by the same amount (2nd place can stay the same), I don't think there'd be as much lethargic people. But the devs are deathly afraid to give such discrepancies between first and dead last. And no, it wouldn't kill the mode- FL queues are just fine without mogtomes the rest of the year.

Yeah I have no idea why FL is part of the event.