Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[FROSTEDFLAKE]

But the real excesses go well beyond that macro. I'm using "spam" to mean constant repetition of the same macro when nothing in the current situation has changed. It's just performative noise.

Im gonna be honest with you, if you think a sound in a video is that detrimental to your real life, I think you should give video game a break because there is a lot of sounds in them :P

[OliviaLugria]

Just a random thought, but....

I wonder if there's a correlation between 'commanders being told to shut up and being muted by a lot of people' and 'commanders preferring to communicate only with their premade in discord and ignoring the rest of the alliance'.

Many I know are moving towards it. It just makes more sense to use people who don't bother listening as bait and make the most out of them with the squad that will.

It's not as effective as leading from the front, but it's an option to at least have a fighting chance against enemy commanders, and probably still beats uncoordinated groups with similar success.

As for the JP mindset, I still believe we're moving closer towards that. Just need more and higher quality commanders till the majority of games have one rather than don't.

[Mawlzy]

As for the JP mindset, I still believe we're moving closer towards that. Just need more and higher quality commanders till the majority of games have one rather than don't.

Possibly true on Shatter, which later today we'll hopefully learn has been scrapped.

But doesn't JP work more to your liking because all three teams tend to have a competent commander? There's a very long way to go on NA for that to happen. Unless, of course, three-tier matchmaking is introduced.

[saucyshortcake]

i've yet to meet an NA commander that's "quality" anyway.

All NA commander is the same.
Step 1 DRK pull
Step 2 aoe spam
Step 3 run away with tail tucked until pull is off cooldown

this is most basic of "commanding" and can be done by anyone. it is no real skill and takes only a few macros. there is much downtime and very inefficient use of the team.

[Mawlzy]

i've yet to meet an NA commander that's "quality" anyway.

All NA commander is the same.
Step 1 DRK pull
Step 2 aoe spam
Step 3 run away with tail tucked until pull is off cooldown

this is most basic of "commanding" and can be done by anyone. it is no real skill and takes only a few macros. there is much downtime and very inefficient use of the team.

There is definitely a cookie-cutter NA commander who is doing little beyond keeping the team in the same place, which has value but is not difficult. That said, I'd suggest there's a subset of commanders who are demonstrably better strategically, thus there's an element of skill. Olivia, for example, is two steps ahead of most of her clones when it comes to overall map awareness and speed of decisions.

However, I strongly agree with your point about the inefficiency of the approach, particularly when a waymarker is involved and the downtime it produces.

The DRK burst doesn't need to involve the whole team. In fact the premade can invariably wipe the players caught in the draw-in. When the DRK rushes back to wait out the next 30 seconds, the waymarker tends to drag the entire team back with them. Thus all these players are doing is providing a meat shield to prevent the premade from being focused.

Maybe this is the idea? But it massively underutilizes the bulk of the team IMO.

[Mawlzy]

Anyone else feeling deflated and despondent after the live letter?

There were several positive noises coming from SE the last few months about giving PvP/FL some love and resources. Instead this "doing something in 7.1 that will be added to in 7.2" sounds like kicking the can down the road. Again.

X.1 has always been the PvP update, and yet despite the lengthening patch cycles this feels like we're being shuffled to the bottom of the deck.

I guess the mistake I made was being excited for potential changes.

[Cidel]

Anyone else feeling deflated and despondent after the live letter?

Uhh. No? I know I've said it before that people seriously need to reel-in their expectations on what the devs deign to address in 7.1's PvP and how they go about them.

There were several positive noises coming from SE the last few months about giving PvP/FL some love and resources. Instead this "doing something in 7.1 that will be added to in 7.2" sounds like kicking the can down the road. Again.

X.1 has always been the PvP update, and yet despite the lengthening patch cycles this feels like we're being shuffled to the bottom of the deck.

I didn't watch the live letter. There was a summary list on reddit (which is all we really need for most of these anyway, since the Live Letters are usually 60% aizuchi and pointless ramblings) that had the main points for PvP I guess:

• Extensive updates to PvP action execution and hit detection; for example, players will be able to better react to certain opponent actions while the action animation is in progress
• New PvP actions for every job except Viper and Pictomancer (since they were just added); some jobs will feel quite different in PvP
• Improvements for Red Sands and Cloud Nine Crystalline Conflict arenas
• Balance adjustments for Frontline and Rival Wings modes (additional major updates for Frontlines are planned for 7.2)
• Additional information on PvP job changes to come in the Part 2 Live Letter

That doesn't seem like getting kicked down the road again. At least not how I'm reading it listed here. Balance adjustments for Frontlines and Rival Wings are coming in 7.1. "Additional" major updates for FL are planned for 7.2. Assuming the individual who made the list of the LL summary didn't grammatically typo anything, it sounds more to me that adjustments are in fact, coming in 7.1. And FL is getting more thereafter in 7.2...

I guess the mistake I made was being excited for potential changes.

???

Again, or am I reading the summary wrong and are there not changes coming? Or are we mad that everything isn't being dropped into 7.1?

[Divinemights]

Anyone else feeling deflated and despondent after the live letter?
There were several positive noises coming from SE the last few months about giving PvP/FL some love and resources. Instead this "doing something in 7.1 that will be added to in 7.2" sounds like kicking the can down the road. Again.
X.1 has always been the PvP update, and yet despite the lengthening patch cycles this feels like we're being shuffled to the bottom of the deck.
I guess the mistake I made was being excited for potential changes.

FF14 PvP balancing is different than WoW; they do not need to nerf/buff patch by patch because there is no stats involved.
If you are expecting nerf DRK, result will not you are expecting.
Whenever they are introducing new actions into PvP in x.1 patch, entire PvP ecosystem will change
New meta will establish, old king will fallen and new king will rise.
They have specifically said they are balancing Frontline and Rival Wing and it is expect there will be change to Limit Break.
People will find new thing to complain
Remember, before NA discovers DK, this forum is cry like river about Summoner after initial release of 6.1

[Mawlzy]

FF14 PvP balancing is different than WoW; they do not need to nerf/buff patch by patch because there is no stats involved.
If you are expecting nerf DRK, result will not you are expecting.
Whenever they are introducing new actions into PvP in x.1 patch, entire PvP ecosystem will change
New meta will establish, old king will fallen and new king will rise.
They have specifically said they are balancing Frontline and Rival Wing and it is expect there will be change to Limit Break.
People will find new thing to complain
Remember, before NA discovers DK, this forum is cry like river about Summoner after initial release of 6.1

If the entire PvP ecosystem changes, I'll be extremely happy.

I don't think the lack of stats means rebalance is not needed. Digital card games get rebalanced constantly because a solved meta is a boring meta. It's surely not too much to ask that once every 2 years the pot is stirred? Maybe add a map rather than removing one? Although I'll make an exception if they axe Shatter, or at least switch to an 8-hour map rotation so I don't lose one day in three.

"Balance adjustments" might be good news, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if this is limited to DR for a handful of jobs getting toggled by +/-5%.

90% of the recurring complaints in this thread were not even orthogonally addressed in the presentation, which came across in real time as vague and rushed.

If the changes to action execution and hit detection actually work, that is potentially exciting.

I guess my gloominess stems from an assumption that, if SE had any interesting or substantive changes to share they would have done more than wave their hands. Maybe that'll come in Part 2.