Feedback: Feeling disappointed by 6.55's narrative, and thus unsure about Dawntrail

[Mithron]

It is indeed "out of character", because their characters don't matter anymore. The Scions are not important (they've been all Flanderized), even Wuk is not important. Square Enix is important because they're losing revenue and need some new marketing gimmicks to recover funds from their failed mobile spin-offs. Dawntrail is filled with odd gimmicks that make no sense (the exoticism fetish, the talking animals, Wuk, Krile being a painter, etc.) so they can cram as many as possible in a 5-minute trailer. Along with the train wreck that was FF16, I have no idea what's going on with this company anymore, and apparently neither does the CEO.

Seriously, am I the only one who finds this out of character?

This is all in accordance with late-stage capitalism (communism lite) where shareholders dictate the public opinion and values through "free" market control. SE isn't about their business or revenue, it's about pleasing shareholders who already control all the revenue through fiat. Once you notice this, everything makes sense.

It is extremely uncharacteristic of Krile and definitely not in a good way.

[Mcg55ss]

Let me reverse this for you to see if you understand the point.

2.X the WoL destroys a major milestone in the Ascians saving their civilization and restoring their society
3.X the WoL beheads the leadership of Ishgard because they wanted to go to war with the dragons, we decided we knew better and that the pope was no longer fit to lead.
4.X the WoL overturns the expansion of Garlemald to restore the independence of nations who probably at one point, conquered those lands from others as well. Does not touch the Azim steppe society even though its a warmongering society that decides leadership by brutality because they shared a common enemy, Garlemald.
5.X the WoL destroys any hope of the Ascians ever restoring the planet to the way it used to be before a rogue faction led by Hydaelyn decided to send everyone to oblivion because they didn't agree with Zodiark
6.X WoD does prevent an apocalypse by a depressive bird

We literally solved everything with violence, and good here is subjective.

Hate to tell you good as always subjective. I mean One Man's oppressor, enemy, dictator so on is another man's hero, just like how some people can see a group of rebels and see them as murderers, thieves and terrible people others can see them as freedom fighters arguing what subjective is just a perspective thing that's going to fall back on your beliefs, your goals, your upbringing and how you think things should be achieved

[Swordsman]

Agreed, I'm not huge on the morality of empires personally, they come and go, conquer, destroy and build, what doesn't feel fun for me is that we are at such an endstage in our power levels that we are Thanos with all infinity stones equipped and no time travel discovered.

TBH I don't know if you know the story of the Aztecs but essentially:

" Meanwhile, Cortes was planning to conquer the Aztec empire. He
started out toward their major city, Tenochtitlan (the-nock-TEE-tlan). It
was where Mexico City is today. Along the way, Cortes fought and
defeated the local natives. Some of these Indians were more hostile to
the Aztecs than to Cortes. They helped him in his attack on the Aztec
empire."

In this case we have a local native bringing in another outside power to seize the throne by force in this contest. What little they know is that because they have done this now they will be beholden to us and they will only think they are in power when in reality we will be. Not dissimilar to the Indians that helped Cortes take out their other local enemies, surely hoping they would get something out of it (they didn't). So if they wanted to avoid the look of colonialism, they kinda failed, and quite frankly, conquest happens everywhere, so that's not entirely the issue. To me the issue is that the WOL is involved its already GG for the other side.

There is literally nothing we can't murder by brute force that will prevent Wuk or whoever we bless with that throne. And then Alphinaud will teach them the right way to lead, probably.

Yeah, that sounds about right. And if the current ruling party gets out of line, the WoL or the Scions will just destroy them or remove them from power and install a new one to lead the state - one that's more in line with their moral opinions, etc. I know people on these forums aren't going to like the optics of the WoL/Scions being conquerors who take by force, but it's pretty much what they are.

It would've been a lot better if we simply got a native explorer looking for people daring enough to find a lost city or something and we left the government out of it.

True, a less involved role where the WoL/Scions don't influence an entire population of a nation by replacing its governing body would be nice in this case.

[Eisi]

There easily could have been a more cautious option in line with the approach that G'raha had just counselled us about – tell her outright that you have reservations about agreeing on such minimal information, so you're willing to come to Tural and assess the situation before committing to her cause.

But the story is that we support her. So we couldn't have that option.

We support her along with Krile, Alphinaud and Alisaie while Thancred and Urianger will oppose us. That's the story they want to tell, which is why we didn't get to be cautious. We support a largely unknown person to claim the throne of an unknown land, which really is a big deal but whatever, that's what you think about because you care too much, the writers don't think about that. Thancred and Urianger support a different candidate and they seem pretty excited about the prospect of having to clash with us and will not talk to us about it. That way SE can create the conflict between us that they want. Remember how that was asked for on the forums? They just do what we wanted. They don't care about the story, they care about having a story.

They write to arrive where they want with the leadup being wonky and artificial because the story and especially understandable three-dimensional characters really aren't that much of a priority.

[Kes13a]

You seem to forget that Wuk Lamat had heard of the WOL”s exploits with saving the world, and she’s asking us to help represent her for a chance at the throne. But befor the WOL can trust her, she wants to get to know you via going on a hunt and battling alongside you at the Isle of Haam to see your capabilities. Then she’s sure that you can help her and asks for your support. She does give a run down on what the governing body is and who are the applicable candidates for the throne for when her father retires. She makes it a point that she has good motives for wanting to lead her people.

I swear you guys just rush the story and don’t even read the dialogue. It’s not that hard to understand. The reason why Tural barely gets mentioned leading up to Patch 6.55 is because Tural was never the topic of discussion until Krile mentions it.

plus, she states that the current ruler ENCOURAGES outside assistance for this contest by all participants.

where people get us riding in as conquering tyrants is beyond me. you are right, I dont think they read anything.

(I still have an issue with how we say yes to virtually anything, you would think after this long the WoL wouldnt be quite so...desperate)

[Dikatis]

True, a less involved role where the WoL/Scions don't influence an entire population of a nation by replacing its governing body would be nice in this case.

I mean, what do you want us to do? Allow Thordan to temper all of Eorzea and commit genocide because muh sovereignty? Let Garlemald commit cultural and literal genocide in Ala Mhigo and Doma because it conquered them fair and square? Allow Vauthry to convert Norvandt's entire remaining population into sin eaters? Let Misjia massacre the Bozjan Resistance and enslave the rest of Bozja for Noah van "I hire crazy cultists and sociopathic mad scientists" Gabranth?

You make it sound like WoL and the Scions are puppeteering governments across the globe. We depose tyrants so the people can choose what to do with their futures. Ishgard, Ala Mhigo, Doma, Eulmore, and Bozja all chose their governments for themselves.

[4clubbedace]

She's still a stranger.

I'm interfering in the politics of something I don't understand for a complete stranger.

What the hell?

mercenary time babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Rayne6665]

If you're skipping cutscenes why do you care about the reasons of the trip to tural.

I know right? I bet alot of people will skipping cutscenes for DT and rush everything to end game then they'll complain "im bored." lol I never ever once skipped cutscenes from ARR to EW. I enjoyed it alot

[Raven2014]

eh I feel a lot of you are trying to be philosophic and overcomplicating thing for no reason. Also, you're accusing the writing for something I don't think it does.

Yes, we talk about justice and thing, but it's ultimately our justice, not the universal justice. And if you accuse the writing as trying to whitewashing it, that's because you're not paying attention to the whole but only nitpicking the part you disagree with.

For example, Alysse said something like this to Emer Sect at the end: yes, we may fall short of the lofty standard of the Ancient, yes our world may not be as perfect as yours ... But it is our world, and I'll be damn if I don't fight for it.

The point is, the WoL/Scion are decidedly Hydaelin team. The story had never pretend we are to be some 3rd party with no personal skate who would just look at thing objectively ... and we are not. Ultimately our fight is about our survival much more so about fair justice. Basically, if your justice means deleting me, than **** your justice. And like I said the game never pretended otherwise. Venat openly admit her choice is a path down suffering and torment that subjects the world to a great sin. And even when Emet admit Venat had a point at the end, he still said he would never forgive her for the crap he had to go through.


The story does a good job to provide proper context so it doesn't seemly become a black/white or good/evil thing. What it doesn't try to do is to cast us as some independent arbiter looking from above. It's already decided we already took a side, and our standard/thinking process are framed in one particular reference. The context it provides is simply for the shake the story not feeling one dimensional where we're the unquestionably good guy beating up an unambiguous bad guy. Two sides both have the right to exist, but if there is only enough for one, then it would be ours.


I read through 10 pages of this thread and I think: you have problem with the story because you want to see it the way it never meant to be. Basically you're not judging the story from the PoV of our avatar, you're breaking the 4th wall in order to apply an "alien" concept to the in game world. Judge the story as a person living in Eoza, that's how it's supposed to make sense. The PoV is not intended to be interpreted as someone looking at the screen.

[NanaWiloh]

plus, she states that the current ruler ENCOURAGES outside assistance for this contest by all participants.

where people get us riding in as conquering tyrants is beyond me. you are right, I dont think they read anything.

(I still have an issue with how we say yes to virtually anything, you would think after this long the WoL wouldnt be quite so...desperate)

They were busy eating cheesy puffs and watching netflix.