These Relics Aren't Relicing

[Kaurhz]

Yes I understand this argument. Getting Aetherpool is a long grind.
I disagree with this. PotD is optional content for players who enjoy it. It's completely soloable from scratch, albeit slower. With a duo, it becomes a cinch. If people want to engage with the content, it's there to engage with.

Yes it is this does not, however, mean that you neglect trying to funnel some or a lot of players into doing or trying the content. Personally, if it takes upwards an hour to get into a queue with the high probability of needing to cycle a given set of floors multiple times because the game elected to not give sufficient amount of Aetherpool. – Then I see that as somewhat of an issue. If people cannot get past that initial hurdle of farming Aetherpool without essentially being told to do it all solo, then you’re likely to experience players that may like the content, otherwise dropping it because of frankly poor support for it.

So, let me see if I understand this right... A player gets Aetherpool at around +50/+50 or so, 51-60 becomes a joke, then you give these players a guaranteed 1 drop each time they run those floors, they'll complete the farm for the 15 artifacts in a few hours and then? What's their incentive to continue engaging with it afterwards?

This I would actually concede on, however I think having it guaranteed at 50, then guaranteed 2 at 100, with a further 1 per set of ten floors for 100+ would be an appropriate accommodation in this case.
You also need to consider the simple fact there are always people doing relics. Over a decade later, tonnes of people still do ARR relics. Over 5 years later – People are still doing Eureka relics, and arguably has some of the best shelf life of any given content.

And I'm confused here, is grinding good or not good? According to all these forum posts, grinding for causality tomes is bad, because they're given so readily, making the relic too easy to get. But now, the argument is that grinding PotD, the way it was intended, to get the relic step done is tedious?

If you started to farm an Endwalker relic today, with 0 causality tomes, it would take about 2 days to get enough causality tomes to get your first stage. If you started the PotD farm today for 15 artifacts (assuming maxed Aetherpool), it would take about 2 days (maybe even less), to complete this step. Seems like they're on par as to how long they take. So what's the reasoning for making the Endwalker relics harder to get, but then make the Bozja relics easier to get?

Yes, it is bad, and they are given it bountifully, and even more so under the premise that people were already doing the content which offers it anyway. My point was that relative to how the content was, it is more tedious to progress that given step. – The emphasis on more.

Your calculation wrests under the expectation that the only content people are engaging with in order to progress the relic is roulettes. If you are doing hunts, and if you are engaging with hunts even semi-actively then you progress an entire relic in 2 days, not just 1 step, and this is from scratch. On the other hand I could do a quick hunt calculation. Let's say you do hunts, there's 12 hunts, you have 8 servers, and each hunt gives 20 tomes, that's 240 per 12 hunts, which is 1 server. Multiply this across 8 servers, you then have 1920 tomes for a complete set of trains. Each A-Rank takes 4-6 hours to respawn, give a tiny bit of leeway for the train to be scouted. That's already 1920, and this doesn't factor in ARR/HW morning trains, or the occasional SB and ShB trains which give a further up-to 120, in between downtimes you can also do your roulettes. They aren't even remotely on par LOL

The reason why Endwalker relics should be harder to get, but the Bozjan relics easier? Well I don’t know – Maybe because for all intents and purposes outside of glamour, the Bozjan relic is near enough entirely irrelevant. Endwalker on the other hand is the current best weapon. Granted, it is the contrary in that Endwalker relics take less time to get than you apparently took to progress 1 step, and that is just a fact.

Have they though? I mean, you could make that argument for ARR and HW maybe, but is SB really nerfed? Eureka is still a massive grind, arguably much longer than Bozja.

Nah you an unequivocally say they all have been nerfed. Eureka takes maybe 4 days to progress a relic from start to finish, and arguably currently I would say it is still less of a grind than Bozjan. Why HW and SB? Well..
HW to my knowledge went from having, what? 3 Luminary Crystals per zone, in addition to the abysmal drop rate – To only needing I believe 1 per zone, on top of a significantly increased drop rate.
The fact all of it is dungeons, trials, etc., means it benefitted indirectly from undersized. Previously, it was what? Farm A1N, and Brayflox on bonus… Now you just farm A5S or A9S, and the game basically hands out light like candy, because you know… Level 60 isn’t exactly threatening to Level 90s

SB? The relics for Pagos were nerfed into oblivion. Vitiated light increased dramatically, and I mean dramatically. Then the crystal yield was doubled on those in something like 4.57, then you had the nerfs to the required level to attune to specific aetherytes across the zones. This made traversing a lot easier, and then the echo buff just overall made it significantly easier on top of how it was. Pazuzu would take people out in troves, now he’s barely a threat, as are the monsters needed to spawn him, and anyone else in Eureka. I don’t have a strong recollection of Anemos, Pyros, nor Hydatos aside from those.

So, absolutely yes HW and SB were absolutely, unequivocally, definitively nerfed.

As for the final point, like I said, because it incentivises more people to actually do PotD, which would probably help more people to actually like it since queues won’t be punishing, or because they wouldn’t need to go through the ordeal of soloing the place on 0AP, and 0 of the tradeable potions. All I did was specify a justification as to why I thought it would be a good idea for that particular step, and beneficial to the overall player base. The subsequent and final step to the relic is an entirely different discussion which doesn’t suffer the same problem as the Augmented Law’s Order weapon, IMO. But if you want to go there, then yes, they could add dungeons, but again, I just think it’s killing more birds with 1 stone to increase or guaranteed the rate on certain floors. The only saving grace with the resistance relics is much of the grind on the other stages is just a 1-time step thing.