These Relics Aren't Relicing

[Saraide]

No one has yet to actually give me a good answer to my question.

We already have a tomestone weapon that one can obtain by grinding whatever content they want. "I prefer that I could grind whatever I wanted for EW" okay, awesome. That's exactly what the tomestone weapon was for. Meanwhile players who wanted more intricate steps with branching, yet specific resources to obtain had Relic weapons. What purpose was there to giving both weapons the same path to obtain them? Why wasn't the tomestone weapon good enough? Why do you need both? And what is left for the players who clearly don't like the tomestone grind path and preferred the relic grind path? If you would rather relics stay a simple tomestone grind every step, then what is it those of us who want the old relic grind experience get to have instead? What do you suggest we get?

Write a list of tasks in the style of old relics yourself or get someone to write one for you. Problem solved.

[Lyth]

The question to ask yourself is whether this is about the weapon itself, or about the associated content.

ARR had some fantastic weapon designs and some truly iconic name references. It's unlikely that we'll ever see that again, simply because of the increasing number of jobs with each expansion. Final Fantasy lore doesn't have hundreds of iconic weapon names to give out. It's unfortunate, because I would have loved to see an equipable Save the Queen greatsword utilizing a classical, symmetric design and the Ragnarok Zeta glow effect.

At the end of the day, though, the weapons themselves just come down to being fun glamours, and there are lots of alternative ways for players to at least get close to BiS months before they drop.

I think the more important question to ask is the type of content that you ought to attach to the relic. Ideally, players should feel like progressing towards completion of their relic takes them through new content. ARR started out strong in this regard, by having you complete the HM Primals to get to your first step. But outside of that, both ARR and HW very much stuck to having you grind out old content, at which point you might as well just be collecting tomestones like we are now.

Where Stormblood and Shadowbringers excelled was in creating unique zones for the relic. I think Eureka was a bit more ambitious, had more varied zones, and did a better job of creating a sense of overworld danger and exploration. Bozja was more streamlined and more forgiving, but had some really great innovation with the duel system. Both had some phenomenal group content, between Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae Savage, both of which have multiple weekly runs even still from their own dedicated communities, much like all the Deep Dungeon content does. I feel like if you want to create a good exploratory zone and good relics, those are the people whose opinions should be sought first and foremost.

But the biggest thing is - they need to start it rolling early, by which I mean shortly after expansion launch. It doesn't matter if the weapon is completely redundant. I don't think the weapon 'progression' matters nearly as much as simply having access to a large zone filled with players to explore together and discover its secrets. In a way what you're really emulating is that older style of MMO where you have to be a bit more patient and rely on a sense of community.

[IDontPetLalas]

My only comment would be no- not "Delubrum Reginae Savage" but "Delubrum Reginae", while I'm sure DRS has its fans I would say that the value of DR in terms of the relic far outweighed DRS, as did CEs

[Lyth]

...

No, I specifically meant DRS. Neither BA nor DRS were mandatory for the relics, but they really illustrate how you can enjoy the content created around the relics without having a specific interest in the relic weapons themselves. I was not a fan of the final Bozja Resistance Weapons designs, so much so that I only bothered to submit one (despite having enough of a stockpile of materials on my retainers from running the content to make others). My point is that I actually enjoyed the relic content (and associated achievement challenges) much more than the relics themselves, and that's where their real value lies. I don't think I've been entirely happy with a final relic step since ARR, despite making at least one weapon from each expansion, and if that was the only attraction then I wouldn't have been all that interested.

I think that Castrum, DR, and Dal are good gateways into getting people interested into this style of content, but both BA and the misnamed DRS are completely unique in terms of the group play and the atmosphere that they bring. It's similar to how only doing 30 floors of Orthos gives you a skewed perspective of what a Deep Dungeon is like, despite the fact that the average group of four players is more than capable of doing a full run with a little bit of trial and error. I think in the case of DRS, they just didn't want to repeat the situation with BA where cutscenes were gated behind completion of slightly harder (but still not 'Savage') content. But they really should encourage more people to get into it to see what it's like for themselves, as there's nothing like it anywhere else in the game.

[Supersnow845]

^i wouldn’t say DRS is misnamed, DRS is 100% at the level of ShB savage (ie enrage is the true villain not body checks on every mechanic)

Trinity avowed and queen are easily 2nd floor savages, trinity seeker, queensguard and Minotaur are first floor savages then ghost and dahu would be extremes, I’d also argue that slimes has easily a savage level of leeway before you straight up wipe the entire raid but the actual mechanic isn’t terribly hard

[RitsukoSonoda]

Well currently with the Bozja relics at this point in time due to the general lack of players actively doing DR normal, I'd really just suggest clipping a good chunk of the HP off the bosses to make the fights noticeably shorter with 1-3 ppl and also making that DPS check phase a bit easier to complete when lacking ppl, while also increasing the amount of timeworn artifacts awarded for finishing it. Honestly I feel like this is all the tuning the process needs as no longer current content.

[Supersnow845]

Well currently with the Bozja relics at this point in time due to the general lack of players actively doing DR normal, I'd really just suggest clipping a good chunk of the HP off the bosses to make the fights noticeably shorter with 1-3 ppl and also making that DPS check phase a bit easier to complete when lacking ppl, while also increasing the amount of timeworn artifacts awarded for finishing it. Honestly I feel like this is all the tuning the process needs as no longer current content.

You can easily solo DRN, you just need to use offensive Essences. They 100% should not nerf anything

[RitsukoSonoda]

You can easily solo DRN, you just need to use offensive Essences. They 100% should not nerf anything

For me and anyone else that has good essences and also those passive buffs all capped it's definitely soloable. The fights just feel like they drag on longer than they should. However I don't think someone without the passive buffs and just basic grade essences can pass the DPS check phase of the 4 mini bosses solo.

Everything else about it is just a matter of actually doing mechanics.

[Supersnow845]

For me and anyone else that has good essences and also those passive buffs all capped it's definitely soloable. The fights just feel like they drag on longer than they should. However I don't think someone without the passive buffs and just basic grade essences can pass the DPS check phase of the 4 mini bosses solo.

Then does that really warrant a nerf, if you know what you are doing it’s soloable, if you don’t it’s at worst duoable, it’s not like the game is forcing you to try to find 23 other players

[RitsukoSonoda]

Then does that really warrant a nerf, if you know what you are doing it’s soloable, if you don’t it’s at worst duoable, it’s not like the game is forcing you to try to find 23 other players

It's more of a thought tbh to address 2 things.

1. the ppl complaining about timeworn artifacts

2. potential new ppl trying to progress the content as I believe clearing DR normal is required to even access the 2nd bozja area.