New Shatter map... something Feels off.

[AriannaStormwake]

i know whats off about the new shatter map well atleast some of the issues
its either a premade on the opposing team
or folks on your team not going for big ice fast enough

[TofuLove]

This is one of many threads that criticise new shatter. I want to just insert this message from Olivia, who is a very well known commander in NA, and made guides for frontline that are actually very good (hi Olivia). https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6407076

Current shatter is the worst version of shatter we have had. I think the game mode really struggles with it's identity to what it wants to be. Seal rock - epic battle across a vast landscape, strategic positioning, defending/capturing/recapturing points. Onsal - fast paced battle - capture and move on, reliant on high mechanical skill as well as tactical reactive positioning. Shatter - build Battle High and avoid death in favour of destroying ice, kill team to get objective to yourself? Seems simplistic, but it basically is a recipe of how to win in this mode, you don't actually even need to fight the other team if your BH is higher. The only real optimisation I found is making sure a certain pattern repeats, so that you are always put in a favoured pattern. Having 2 big ice at the same time makes the average games really boring and 1 vs 2 pinching basically non-existent. Having small ice spawn twice a match means that the top section of the map is basically wasted space. Having kills matter so little basically means pvp matters very little and come backs very difficult and games too long. It's the only game mode out of the 3 where 3rd team 100% determines who wins and can win trade (not that it matters because any self respecting pre made is going to lose in this game mode easily), and 1st place team can just ignore everything apart from ice. I think the average games aren't aggressive enough and there is no reason for them to be aggressive - kills don't matter, only bh matters.

[Mawlzy]

This is one of many threads that criticise new shatter. I want to just insert this message from Olivia, who is a very well known commander in NA, and made guides for frontline that are actually very good (hi Olivia). https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6407076

Current shatter is the worst version of shatter we have had. I think the game mode really struggles with it's identity to what it wants to be. Seal rock - epic battle across a vast landscape, strategic positioning, defending/capturing/recapturing points. Onsal - fast paced battle - capture and move on, reliant on high mechanical skill as well as tactical reactive positioning. Shatter - build Battle High and avoid death in favour of destroying ice, kill team to get objective to yourself? Seems simplistic, but it basically is a recipe of how to win in this mode, you don't actually even need to fight the other team if your BH is higher. The only real optimisation I found is making sure a certain pattern repeats, so that you are always put in a favoured pattern. Having 2 big ice at the same time makes the average games really boring and 1 vs 2 pinching basically non-existent. Having small ice spawn twice a match means that the top section of the map is basically wasted space. Having kills matter so little basically means pvp matters very little and come backs very difficult and games too long. It's the only game mode out of the 3 where 3rd team 100% determines who wins and can win trade (not that it matters because any self respecting pre made is going to lose in this game mode easily), and 1st place team can just ignore everything apart from ice. I think the average games aren't aggressive enough and there is no reason for them to be aggressive - kills don't matter, only bh matters.

I respect Olivia's understanding of FL, but this is just nonsense. One emergent strat that I've seen to be extremely successful (and which, unfortunately, could be exploited by a premade far too effectively, particularly with a shot-caller like Olivia), is to hide above big ices and jump the opposing team once it has assembled. With many players in Shatter being tunnel-visioned on the ice, the effects are devastating.

My guess is that Olivia's previous approach with her premade is ineffective on the new map (which to me is a vast improvement). Adapt or die.

[TofuLove]

One emergent strat that I've seen to be extremely successful (and which, unfortunately, could be exploited by a premade far too effectively, particularly with a shot-caller like Olivia), is to hide above big ices and jump the opposing team once it has assembled.

This was 100% a strat in the previous shatter among many others. Not having all teams contest the ice makes for less 2vs1 engagement, less opportunities for come backs as kills matter way less. As well as that, people tunnel visioning on the ice currently as you say doesn't make for an engaging gameplay - going absolute meta premade in this mode isn't not even fun for the premade since it's an absolute stomp. Wins are very farmable but also take too long.

[Mawlzy]

This was 100% a strat in the previous shatter among many others. Not having all teams contest the ice makes for less 2vs1 engagement, less opportunities for come backs as kills matter way less. As well as that, people tunnel visioning on the ice currently as you say doesn't make for an engaging gameplay - going absolute meta premade in this mode isn't not even fun for the premade since it's an absolute stomp. Wins are very farmable but also take too long.

Totally agree reducing the points for KOs was a big mistake. And you'll excuse me if I don't shed a tear over premades not having as much fun. I completely understand why people run with them, but to me mixing solo and party queuing is the root cause of most that is wrong with FL.

[Archeron]

This map has always been irredeemable garbage since they started reworking it in Endwalker. Nobody was asking for Shatter to be reworked. Borderland Ruins by all measures was due for a change, Old shatter was still enjoyable and fun to play. Instead Borderland Ruins gets nuked for no reason, and Shatter gets ruined by endless reworks.

First problem is the people in charge of PvP right now, have no understanding of the fundamentals of PvP map design. This map is designed for PvE normies. When the rework failed, and everyone hated it, they tried to "force" pvp by changing the node spawns, which also failed. Nobody has EVER liked this version of Shatter. The updates made to frontlines maps in this expansion have erased two of our favorite maps, and left us with only Onsal, and Seal Rock (Both of which have their own individual issues.)

Square will continue to deliver, failure, after failure for PvP until they learn that they *must* PLAY TEST EVERY SINGLE MODIFICATION BEFORE IMPLEMENTATION.

-The problems with the Shatter Rework would have been identified day one.
-Any other future map updates would also have basic issues identified that would prevent them from being implemented into the game, and spare us 6 months of having to put up with it.
-We wouldn't have to scream at the top of our lungs into a void waiting for them to give us a half hearted change 6 months later.

Any MMO serious about its PvP does this. They have dedicated PvP dev teams, and they do not released half baked updates like we are conditioned to recieve on a irregular basis every 6 months. I mean hell Square Enix can just STEAL the ideas from other MMO's. Everytime they change a map, or botch a rework, just imagine what we could have had instead. Capture the Flag maps, King of the Hill maps, hell even a pure death match would be welcome. You know what else? How about basic QoL fixes that can be easily done in a single patch? (Not talking about the netcode btw.) No. Instead they insist on shovelling this garbage in our faces. We cannot expect them to make any reasonable changes to PvP, when the team in charge doesn't understand what they're doing, and doesn't communicate or consider feedback from its core playerbase.

[Eastwall]

Now instead of running between small ices, l am running between Big ices,lol. I think they want to encourage pvp by funneling people to fight over the big ice, but it didn't work out. People just hit the big ice Then leave immediately to the next big ice. All l can say that my computer is decent enough to run 2 games at once.. That definitely helped me to get my daily roulette bonus when the map is shatter.

[OliviaLugria]

I respect Olivia's understanding of FL, but this is just nonsense. One emergent strat that I've seen to be extremely successful (and which, unfortunately, could be exploited by a premade far too effectively, particularly with a shot-caller like Olivia), is to hide above big ices and jump the opposing team once it has assembled. With many players in Shatter being tunnel-visioned on the ice, the effects are devastating.

My guess is that Olivia's previous approach with her premade is ineffective on the new map (which to me is a vast improvement). Adapt or die.

A few things.
1. This was my opinion on day 1, which while I think is pretty much correct, I've put in 100ish games of shatter since then(with a majority being wins).

2. The strategy you mention is a favorite of mine. I won't go so far as to say I came up with it, but I'm at least one of its first practitioners. If you employ it, the same three things that I stated in my original post will happen. A. You bulldoze through, B. You feed, C. Nothing really happens. The main issue is that if the safe ice team has any coordination, they can shift around the ice and it becomes no different than if the attacking team had jumped off their cliff. The second issue is how detrimental fighting actually is to your score. It might actually be more efficient score wise to let them break their ice unimpeded so you can have your safe ice spawn again. The third issue is how horribly out of position you can end up. With improper timing you may be giving up a huge amount of points to the uncontested team who could pinch you, steal mid, camp your own safe ice, or all of the above putting you further behind.

I will say going around is far superior than going through the middle funnel. You at least get to hit some ice with your burst, but I'm hesitant to call it a viable, long term strategy.

3. I find it hard to define my "approach" but my only goal is to win. If the optimal way to do that is to lick ice and to avoid fighting as much as possible than that's fine. I don't find it the most engaging, and it definitely isn't my beloved shatter 2, but a win is a win.

[IDontPetLalas]

I commiserate , I understand someone being pragmatic, and I've had to accept (3), however it definitely is somewhat depressing at times. I'm not really an advocate of deathmatches, however I would decrease points for whacking away at ice and increase KOs and assists. (Better ideas are welcome)

[Mawlzy]

A few things.
1. This was my opinion on day 1, which while I think is pretty much correct, I've put in 100ish games of shatter since then(with a majority being wins).

So you're hitting a > 50% win-rate in a mode in which 33% is par.

Thank you. You provided conclusive proof of why party queueing should be separated from solo. I'll return to FL when I don't have to put up with you and your mouthy little minions.