New Shatter map... something Feels off.

[Aubrey_A]

Shatter..it's something.

Your mileage may vary with this next statement, but I believe the backlash is unwarranted for Shatter.

What I landed on is (yes really) this iteration of Shatter must fulfill SE's vision for a specific type of PVP. A very different type of PVP than the community is used to, but maybe that's intentional.

I see this rendition of PVP as more of a race between teams to obtain points from ice more quickly than the other teams, with skirmishes to be an accessory to the mode. Obtaining points from ice more quickly than the other teams- in the same vein as racing other teams to a finish line in a cooperative racing game- is the main form of "pvp" occurring.

Coming from that perspective...I don't believe something feels off with Shatter. I believe it's intentionally fundamentally different than Onsal or Seal Rock. Is it something I enjoy playing? Sometimes, but not all the time. I'm sure there are solo/partied players who enjoy this new flavour of PVP, and I don't want to discount any of that.

Is this me white knighting poor PVP development? I'm honestly not sure anymore. If you have fun with it, you do you.

EDIT: So yes, exactly like item #1 from OPs post, without the followthrough of making this type of PVP separate from actual PVP. PVE-flavoured FL 1/3 of the time. Kinda like getting 3 scoops of ice cream on a cone, and you hate one of the flavours.

[Archeron]

Shatter..it's something.

Your mileage may vary with this next statement, but I believe the backlash is unwarranted for Shatter.

What I landed on is (yes really) this iteration of Shatter must fulfill SE's vision for a specific type of PVP. A very different type of PVP than the community is used to, but maybe that's intentional.

I see this rendition of PVP as more of a race between teams to obtain points from ice more quickly than the other teams, with skirmishes to be an accessory to the mode. Obtaining points from ice more quickly than the other teams- in the same vein as racing other teams to a finish line in a cooperative racing game- is the main form of "pvp" occurring.

Coming from that perspective...I don't believe something feels off with Shatter. I believe it's intentionally fundamentally different than Onsal or Seal Rock. Is it something I enjoy playing? Sometimes, but not all the time. I'm sure there are solo/partied players who enjoy this new flavour of PVP, and I don't want to discount any of that.

Is this me white knighting poor PVP development? I'm honestly not sure anymore. If you have fun with it, you do you.

EDIT: So yes, exactly like item #1 from OPs post, without the followthrough of making this type of PVP separate from actual PVP. PVE-flavoured FL 1/3 of the time. Kinda like getting 3 scoops of ice cream on a cone, and you hate one of the flavours.

PvP stands for "Player Versus Player." That means I want to slaughter some people, not play a Mario Party minigame with them.

I do agree that its intentionally made this way, and its not just a bad flavor of ice cream, its one that is a direct insult to the spirit of PvP. The condemnation of Shatter is more than warranted, especially if you don't want them implementing more of this crap.

[Aubrey_A]

PvP stands for "Player Versus Player." That means I want to slaughter some people, not play a Mario Party minigame with them.

I do agree that its intentionally made this way, and its not just a bad flavor of ice cream, its one that is a direct insult to the spirit of PvP. The condemnation of Shatter is more than warranted, especially if you don't want them implementing more of this crap.

I believe the previous version of Shatter was a more enjoyable game mode. I also firmly believe that the "spirit of PVP" PVPers understand doesn't align with SE's plan for the game. To that end, I don't think any level of condemnation of Shatter will have any effect. A post in a different thread resonates with how I think PVP develops:

Until a critical point comes to where they absolutely need to adapt, they'll drag their feet on making iterative changes or deviations in their original plan.

I'm hoping putting trust into the process makes for a fun game mode somewhere down the line. SE has all the statistics and metrics of play after all.

[TofuLove]

SE has all the statistics and metrics of play after all.

At this point I just refuse to queue up on shatter days (even though i really like frontline), and encourage those who aren't happy with changes to do the same - it's the only feedback option beyond this forum and in-game help desk (doubt that has any effect, but maybe?). If statistics drop for shatter participation, it should (in theory) send a message? I hope. With secure being gone for "rework", I am down to 2 maps now.

[Archeron]

I believe the previous version of Shatter was a more enjoyable game mode. I also firmly believe that the "spirit of PVP" PVPers understand doesn't align with SE's plan for the game. To that end, I don't think any level of condemnation of Shatter will have any effect. A post in a different thread resonates with how I think PVP develops:



I'm hoping putting trust into the process makes for a fun game mode somewhere down the line. SE has all the statistics and metrics of play after all.

Why trust Square when they have failed to make PvP better since 6.1? I for one will not sit down and just accept that Square will shovel trash in our face because they "have a plan" or that they'll make it fun "down the line." I'm sorry, why can't it be fun literally right now? Why should we have to wait and accept that we're going to be given inferior PvP until they decide we're worthy of better content?

If a mechanic fails to fix your car 4 times in a row, do you trust him? I don't. Square has proven that even if they *have* statistics, they don't know what the hell they're doing with them. Shatter has been universally panned by literally the entire playerbase. I never see people saying "Wow I love the new shatter" in alliance chat.

[Aubrey_A]

Snip

Without going into it too much, I give SE some credit for trying something different. Did they miss the mark? I think they did; I enjoyed the previous version more. SE's the only mechanic in town with the tools to make change though. Might take 4, 8, 12 months, or more to change.

Again, I agree with OP's feedback #1. I'd be ecstatic if SE had a rotation that went back and forward between Onsal and Seal Rock. A different one for Shatter, or maybe Shatter and similar modes.

[Archeron]

Without going into it too much, I give SE some credit for trying something different. Did they miss the mark? I think they did; I enjoyed the previous version more. SE's the only mechanic in town with the tools to make change though. Might take 4, 8, 12 months, or more to change.

Again, I agree with OP's feedback #1. I'd be ecstatic if SE had a rotation that went back and forward between Onsal and Seal Rock. A different one for Shatter, or maybe Shatter and similar modes.

I do not give them credit for trying something new. Why? They did it at the expense of a map that was Perfectly fine, and enjoyed by the community at large before they began tampering with it.

What could they have done? Make changes to Borderland ruins instead. That map was long overdue for a change, and anything they did to change it would have been seen as positive.

What did they do instead? Ruin Shatter to the point where its not fun with two awful variants, take Borderland ruins out of the rotation, and shovel job adjustments, and +/- to damage output on jobs that did not address any of our core concerns with the mode we've been having. Think about it like this; You could almost argue that Endwalker has removed more content than it has added to frontlines since 6.1 In what world is that acceptable? Would the savage raiders be happy if we took content away from them? I don't think so. I'm aware that its two different forms of content. Change Savage raiding out, for literally any other community this game has and see how they react.

Patience is not the solution. If Square wants PvP to be taken seriously, it needs to be ready to listen, and react to feedback provided by the community. Waiting months at a time before making adjustments is unacceptable. Ignoring feedback for years is unacceptable. People pointing out the speed of the 6.57 band-aid should be reminded This change ultimately would have been unneccesary had they just had playtested the map before it was implemented. This change, also does very little in my opinion to even address the core issues we have with the map.

There are only two ways Square Enix reacts to make changes to the game.
1. Overwhelming Negative feedback
2. Being clowned on by bigger content creators.

Since creators aren't playing XIV during the content drought, option one is the only way to go. You may not like it, but the devs don't exactly communicate with us at all, and until they do, they can expect us to respond with pitchforks and torches raised.