/r/ffxivdiscussion: Has FFXIV had any major retcons or plot holes in the story?

[Boblawblah]

I for one, gladly worship our genocidal mommy. Venat did nothing wrong.



(i'd do the other gif, but the "trancers" or whatever they call themselves don't like it)

[ZavosEsperian]

I for one, gladly worship our genocidal mommy. Venat did nothing wrong.

Finally, someone who can go after the Ascians without being a hypocrite while doing so.

(i'd do the other gif, but the "trancers" or whatever they call themselves don't like it)

...uhh, who or what are you exactly talking about?

[Chasingstars]

I don't think its meant to be anything more than just the personification and the equivalent of: The present day we live in is built on the bones, the death, and the suffering of the past.

As the scions and other npcs seem very fond of the phrase: “For those we have lost. For those we can yet save.” Which would be acknowledging trying to make a change for the better in spite of what has happened.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I don't think its meant to be anything more than just the personification and the equivalent of: The present day we live in is built on the bones, the death, and the suffering of the past.

As the scions and other npcs seem very fond of the phrase: “For those we have lost. For those we can yet save.” Which would be acknowledging trying to make a change for the better in spite of what has happened.

If only that death and suffering hadn't been inflicted on us ON PURPOSE to toughen us up and if only that "can yet" didn't become fuzzy as hell with the regular use of time travel.

But as I've already pointed out, that if you subscribe to the theory that she not only has foreknowledge (because of WoL) and agency (because Elidibus is a liar), this means that despite just meeting the WoL and being relayed the state of existence today, that it's somehow more right to doom the future. This, sadly, makes your claims to being an empath deader than a door nail. You are not empathetic, you are just someone who wanted Zodiark to win, for some unknown reason.

I've already explained I don't think Elidibus is a liar, but he didn't even know we'd be able to interact with the past and it was our interaction with the past that causes the Sundering. And also, there is a difference between doing everything in your power and failing and doing everything in your power to wipe out your people. Venat did the latter, so that makes her a bad person even if she thought she was doing good. But since you're ignoring everything I'm saying and just deciding I want Zodiark to win. I'm gonna give up now. Have a nice life.

[Turtledeluxe]

I've already explained I don't think Elidibus is a liar, but he didn't even know we'd be able to interact with the past and it was our interaction with the past that causes the Sundering. And also, there is a difference between doing everything in your power and failing and doing everything in your power to wipe out your people. Venat did the latter, so that makes her a bad person even if she thought she was doing good. But since you're ignoring everything I'm saying and just deciding I want Zodiark to win. I'm gonna give up now. Have a nice life.

If Elidibus didn't know that, I see no reason why it was written into this key moment of the story. To be deliberately misleading? Then the writing really is as bad as you say. What is the point of establishing a major, story determining rule of causality if characters could just be wrong within exactly 5 minutes of them establishing it? If you dismiss what he says, for any reason, you are correct that you have to make up the reasons for yourself why the timeline went exactly the same, and that includes Venat being utterly bizarrely obsessed with playing her exact role as described. I think what you're giving up on, is defending that, and I understand.

Because, to be clear, why would anyone ever write a story about that? What are we supposed to be taking from a story about someone who was told the future, and then didn't heed the warning whatsoever? The writers wanted to create an all time incompetent, negligent, and selfish character? I'd be frustrated as well because I don't understand what purpose that sort of story serves. Unless we are saying the writers unintentionally wrote the character this way, in which case is the problem Venat or is it the writers being ineffective? Because how can writers write the story admonishing her if they don't understand what they wrote in the first place? That's contradictory.

And I'm fully expecting someone to say the writers could have done more, after all they wrote the random omega line where he asks who was justified. Aside from killing her off yourself, I'm unsure you're going to get any more than that. How much time and narrative are they supposed to spend correcting this alleged corrupted Venat they inadvertently wrote?

We have come full circle to my very first post that everyone argued with me over. The writing created problems that do not need to exist, and make the Ancient story even less worth moralizing over than it already is as a story about perfect god like humans. You have to point to other areas of the story like with Graha when it isn't clear that time travel is working the same way here. Even if you do connect some dots, there's no consistent and definitive interpretation of the EW story as too much of it is left ambiguous . This is literally what my post says (other than the moralizing) so why is this 14 pages.

[Chasingstars]

If only that death and suffering hadn't been inflicted on us ON PURPOSE to toughen us up and if only that "can yet" didn't become fuzzy as hell with the regular use of time travel.

Its not fuzzy. Its: "Stop thinking about what happened in the equivalent of ancient egypt and its atrocities. Go and help that person trapped in a building that is currently burning right now."

[NanaWiloh]

Reminder this game story is pure fiction and should at no point be taken seriously ever!! It is also not in anyway shape or form a educational program. If you believe this game is trying to teach right from wrong then ya got more issues then the story does.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Reminder this game story is pure fiction and should at no point be taken seriously ever!! It is also not in anyway shape or form a educational program. If you believe this game is trying to teach right from wrong then ya got more issues then the story does.

It's just a game. Stories don't teach morals. But if they did, Venat was right to kill the babies because had she not killed them, then they would have never existed to live short lives and die horribly. And also, you just want a being you met once when you killed him in a trial to win, who by the way, ate babies and that's why Venat had to kill them first, so Zodiark wouldn't eat them.

At this point I can't help but wonder if I'm arguing with the people who wrote this mess.

[NanaWiloh]

It's just a game. Stories don't teach morals. But if they did, Venat was right to kill the babies because had she not killed them, then they would have never existed to live short lives and die horribly. And also, you just want a being you met once when you killed him in a trial to win, who by the way, ate babies and that's why Venat had to kill them first, so Zodiark wouldn't eat them.

At this point I can't help but wonder if I'm arguing with the people who wrote this mess.

Did not write it nor do I work for SE. But moral conflict exists in stories just has it does in life.

[Lord_Umbra]

Praetorium probably biggest retcon to fit current story, Hydaelyn does more in new version than did in original & the WoL actually gets killed or near death state by Laha & revived by Hydaelyn which leads to my WoL havign a different canon to new WoLs as my WoL never got killed/near-killed by Laha & whooped him so hard he didn't even realise he was dead as he stayed at 0.1% for his speech to play out.