Pure/Barrier Split is a failure

[Supersnow845]

I feel like SCH+SGE lacking the pure healing to get everyone up is exactly what they should have done, like is there any sort of remote justification for why SGE has even half the amount of pure healing that it does

[Mortex]

I feel like SCH+SGE lacking the pure healing to get everyone up is exactly what they should have done, like is there any sort of remote justification for why SGE has even half the amount of pure healing that it does

The problem is that the missing healing power doesn’t matter when the dmg you take is 100 % more mitigated then sgn or sch alone would do plus they have so many regen tools that if fights are not have massive constant dmg sources you don’t feel a missing regen healer.

[Supersnow845]

The problem is that the missing healing power doesn’t matter when the dmg you take is 100 % more mitigated then sgn or sch alone would do plus they have so many regen tools that if fights are not have massive constant dmg sources you don’t feel a missing regen healer.

I mean nerf the shield healers pure healing into the literal ground, you can put 3 mitigations on that raidwide you are still taking 70% of your HP as damage, I want the shield healers to be physically incapable of healing that 70% without massive DPS loss

Something like 40% of shield healers functional HPS is pure mitigation and of the remaining 60% about 30% is succor or ET succor

Not this half assed “shield healers are 15% weaker in pure HPS but mitigate 70% more so their functional HPS is astronomically higher no I want the shields raw HPS nerfed into the damn ground

[Aravell]

I mean nerf the shield healers pure healing into the literal ground, you can put 3 mitigations on that raidwide you are still taking 70% of your HP as damage, I want the shield healers to be physically incapable of healing that 70% without massive DPS loss

I think they could also change Succor to make pure healing a loss for the designated shield healers. Succor should only apply a shield with no healing attached (probably do the same with Eukrasian Prognosis since SGE can use Prognosis without Eukrasia for a pure heal), then make ET a toggle which turns Succor into purely healing.

My only concern with a huge nerf to shield healers is that they'll increase the dependency too much and end up with co-healers blaming each other for the wipe. I don't know about you, but I don't want my survival to a multi-hit stack mechanic to be entirely dependent on the competency of my co-healer. It was already annoying in Abyssos early prog where survival was entirely dependent on whether or not the melee decided to press Feint.

In the end, I would like to see a nerf to the pure healing of the designated shield healers, but not to the point where the party has to immediately wipe whenever one of the healers go down. Some overlap is fine, in my opinion. Like WHM has 1 free mitigation, the shield healers could do with 1 free pure heal.

[Supersnow845]

I think they could also change Succor to make pure healing a loss for the designated shield healers. Succor should only apply a shield with no healing attached (probably do the same with Eukrasian Prognosis since SGE can use Prognosis without Eukrasia for a pure heal), then make ET a toggle which turns Succor into purely healing.

My only concern with a huge nerf to shield healers is that they'll increase the dependency too much and end up with co-healers blaming each other for the wipe. I don't know about you, but I don't want my survival to a multi-hit stack mechanic to be entirely dependent on the competency of my co-healer. It was already annoying in Abyssos early prog where survival was entirely dependent on whether or not the melee decided to press Feint.

In the end, I would like to see a nerf to the pure healing of the designated shield healers, but not to the point where the party has to immediately wipe whenever one of the healers go down. Some overlap is fine, in my opinion. Like WHM has 1 free mitigation, the shield healers could do with 1 free pure heal.

I’d be fine if the shields pure healing basically amounted to how WHM handles mitigation

For example SCH can keep excog as the equivalent of aquaveil and can keep…..say whispering dawn and a nerfed indom on a longer CD as an equivalent to temperance but I honestly think that should be all

I’m fine to feel like I need to rely on the cohealer to have both of us be needed to survive abyssos just felt bad because 70% of the melee didn’t give a single f….. about pressing feint AND then proceeded to blame the healer anyway

[Aravell]

I’d be fine if the shields pure healing basically amounted to how WHM handles mitigation

For example SCH can keep excog as the equivalent of aquaveil and can keep…..say whispering dawn and a nerfed indom on a longer CD as an equivalent to temperance but I honestly think that should be all

I’m fine to feel like I need to rely on the cohealer to have both of us be needed to survive abyssos just felt bad because 70% of the melee didn’t give a single f….. about pressing feint AND then proceeded to blame the healer anyway

I'm genuinely curious why you're so against Indom in particular. If we go by the criteria required to not overlap the duties of the designated pure healer, it fits the criteria perfectly.

> It costs you damage (shares resource with ED)
> It's not spammable (has resource cost and a cooldown)
> It's not too strong (same potency as Medica)

That being said, I do agree that its interaction with Recitation takes it too far by nullifying 2 of the downsides (damage loss and healing strength), but regular Indom doesn't seem that bad to me.

[IceBlueNinja]

The problem is that the missing healing power doesn’t matter when the dmg you take is 100 % more mitigated then sgn or sch alone would do plus they have so many regen tools that if fights are not have massive constant dmg sources you don’t feel a missing regen healer.

I agree sage/sch makes you sometimes wonder why is whm and ast is worth playing (I still love ast dont get me wrong) I can do anything the pure healers can do as a sage + not be punished it from it because sage 99% of sage kit is instant on the go with only normal diagnosis dosis and pneuma having to cast. Kardia/Embrace is a literally free hot unlimited hot makes you wonder what is the point of whm regen or ast aspected benefic

[Supersnow845]

I agree sage/sch makes you sometimes wonder why is whm and ast is worth playing (I still love ast dont get me wrong) I can do anything the pure healers can do as a sage + not be punished it from it because sage 99% of sage kit is instant on the go with only normal diagnosis dosis and pneuma having to cast. Kardia/Embrace is a literally free hot unlimited hot makes you wonder what is the point of whm regen or ast aspected benefic

Which is why SGE and SCH’s pure healing needs to be nerfed, because it encroaches on the regen healers way too much

Critdom should go, pneuma should go, expiration on panhaima should go, consolation shouldn’t have a pure heal, blessing should go, holos should lose the pure heal, kerechole and soil should be mitigation only

Why are the shield healers drowning in pure healing

[IceBlueNinja]

Which is why SGE and SCH’s pure healing needs to be nerfed, because it encroaches on the regen healers way too much

Critdom should go, pneuma should go, expiration on panhaima should go, consolation shouldn’t have a pure heal, blessing should go, holos should lose the pure heal, kerechole and soil should be mitigation only

Why are the shield healers drowning in pure healing

I must say for once I have to agree with you right there 100%, because to be honest all you have mention I was literally considering making the same thoughts.

[Valence]

Pure and shield healer is a good dichotomy as long as the gameplay remains based around the GCD heals and barriers, which is where the difference lies.

As long as healers use all of their OGCDs to heal and sustain and mitigate through fights, which savage tends to be designed around anyway - unless very specific unicorn (and great) mechanics like Harrowing Hell - then there is very little difference between both, and the difference only lies in how said healers play in terms of class identity rather than an arbitrary distinction between raw and shield healing.