Politics

[Cleretic]

Patch dropped yesterday.

Though approx. 85% of the complaints about Endwalker's story are people deliberately interpreting things differently to how they are presented... but I digress.

The patch dropped on Tuesday evening for me and it's now Thursday, it's been two days for me!

[Palladiamors]

I think paraphrasing Yoshida sums it up best, the writing team doesn't have a plan, they are allowed to do basically whatever they feel like. When you have a persistent writing team that's fine, but when the pen starts changing hands things tend to go awry. Like going on an expansion long side quest and coming back to the war you were in the middle of being finished unceremoniously off screen or having ten years worth of story wrapped up by a Woobie destroyer of worlds whose specialty is previously unheard of space/emotion magic who pops up in the last third of the expansion.

[Cilia]

The patch dropped on Tuesday evening for me and it's now Thursday, it's been two days for me!

Time differences, ayy!

I think paraphrasing Yoshida sums it up best, the writing team doesn't have a plan, they are allowed to do basically whatever they feel like. When you have a persistent writing team that's fine, but when the pen starts changing hands things tend to go awry. Like going on an expansion long side quest and coming back to the war you were in the middle of being finished unceremoniously off screen or having ten years worth of story wrapped up by a Woobie destroyer of worlds whose specialty is previously unheard of space/emotion magic who pops up in the last third of the expansion.

To be fair, Shadowbringers and Endwalker both had the same lead writer (Natsuko Ishikawa), though the latter clearly had some edits from Yoshi-P and/or Banri Oda.

The kerfluffle with 2.X's political storyline was a result of them having no plan because even going past 2.0 wasn't greenlit. A Realm Reborn's success let them go on to Heavensward, but they needed to kill time and keep player interest in the meantime, so we just beat up Monster of the Week primals and dealt with Teledji Adeledji trying to outplay Nanamo and Lolorito until 2.5 started hinting at where Heavensward would go. Thanks to the game's success there is generally a plan these days, but back then... nope.

I'm... cautiously optimistic with how Dawntrail is gonna turn out. If I remember right Daichi Hiroi is the main writer this time, and he did 6.X... which I found extremely disappointing in spite of the good characters. Too much deus ex machina, cliché plotline. Maybe more space will help.

[SannaR]

Time differences, ayy!



To be fair, Shadowbringers and Endwalker both had the same lead writer (Natsuko Ishikawa), though the latter clearly had some edits from Yoshi-P and/or Banri Oda.

The kerfluffle with 2.X's political storyline was a result of them having no plan because even going past 2.0 wasn't greenlit. A Realm Reborn's success let them go on to Heavensward, but they needed to kill time and keep player interest in the meantime, so we just beat up Monster of the Week primals and dealt with Teledji Adeledji trying to outplay Nanamo and Lolorito until 2.5 started hinting at where Heavensward would go. Thanks to the game's success there is generally a plan these days, but back then... nope.

I'm... cautiously optimistic with how Dawntrail is gonna turn out. If I remember right Daichi Hiroi is the main writer this time, and he did 6.X... which I found extremely disappointing in spite of the good characters. Too much deus ex machina, cliché plotline. Maybe more space will help.

I'm not sure they did 6.X. I do know he and the other main writer we are getting did Pandeamonium and Sorrows of Werlyt.

[Cleretic]

I'm not sure they did 6.X. I do know he and the other main writer we are getting did Pandeamonium and Sorrows of Werlyt.

Yeah, the 6.x lead writer (or writers) is completely unknown, save that they're working under the same overall system and structure.

My gut says it was a Daichi Hiroi story, because it generally seems to fit what he seems to put in, but that's just vibe. And given that going by 6.0's credits there's forty people that could be called 'writers', it's entirely possible that we just won't have any idea because it could be that unseen rest of the iceberg.

[Cleretic]

If you take issue with the things I say, discuss the things I say.

Then respond to MikkoAkure, or to Palladiamors, who actually did discuss the things you said. If what you actually want to do is defend your points, then you have people challenging them. But personally, I look at your posts and I see someone who failed to read clearly stated points in a story they played, at the absolute latest, the day before they posted. There isn't even a distance from the story to blame here; you read all of this as recently as we did.

As pointed out by Mikko, we're fully aware that one of the people with eyes on the throne wants to use it to invade Eorzea, meaning turning a blind eye to it all would be at best foolish--but as Palladiamors said, so too are we not getting blindly involved, as our explicitly stated first priority is actually to get the lay of the land. And also mentioned by Palladiamors, far from being an unwelcome presence to the proceedings, we're actually being directly invited, because the rite of succession encourages recruiting people to put importance on the diplomacy and unification that Gulool presumably values himself.

I think those are all pretty well-stated points, and I didn't really add to them because I thought that they made their points very well, I didn't have anything further to say on it. But I don't think you're interested in arguing the actual points; I think you're interested in kneejerk moralizing. Which is why you reply to what you see as a personal attack from me, rather than actually refuting the material points being put forward.

[Palladiamors]

Will you please stop discussing me as a person. It's weird. If you take issue with the things I say, discuss the things I say.

I asked you a question and Cleretic answered, confirming my suspicions. I did some digging afterwards and that supported my hypothesis, you have a bad habit of taking presented information and turning it into something completely different. I don't know if you genuinely misunderstand the information or if you're working off a version of events as you want them to be but either way, it makes it hard to talk about apples when you keep insisting they are oranges.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

*snip*

Has it ever occurred to you that when someone comes back to discuss the topic and see instead a discussion of what a garbage person they are, that might make them less enthused to discuss the topic with people who they know will dismiss everything they say because they've been deemed lesser?

I know you know this because this is why you do it. You know with enough bullying, you won't have to deal with dissent, and you're right, my interest in posting on these forums is at zero. Soon, I will be gone but before that happens, I want you to know it's because of nasty behavior rather than any ideological victory. Most the arguments made against my points conflict with one another, though I can't put that on you as you've made literally no arguments against my points, only me, which is why I'm addressing you as you seem to be the ringleader when it comes to bullying on these forums.

I asked you a question and Cleretic answered, confirming my suspicions. I did some digging afterwards and that supported my hypothesis, you have a bad habit of taking presented information and turning it into something completely different. I don't know if you genuinely misunderstand the information or if you're working off a version of events as you want them to be but either way, it makes it hard to talk about apples when you keep insisting they are oranges.

The disagreements aren't over objective reality. We're not debating over if the pen is blue or black. The disagreements are over moral judgements and yes, I find devolving an entire species down to apes removing their memories and history as something bad even if the game tells me it's something good. I find traveling to a country and installing a person we just met as their leader with power purchased by the systematic extermination of billions of people as bad, even though the game assures me they are into that.

Given how horrific I find EW moral messaging, I was hoping, beyond hope, they'd change directions, but no, they are doubling down on having the WoL do bad things while assuring us they are good things actually. And if I don't simply agree, go along with it and enjoy my colonialist adventure, then clearly there is something wrong with me as a person.

[Kennar]

All right, so... with all of the previous story, I could justify that my character was caught up in things much bigger than herself and far beyond her control--figuratively pulled from place to place doing the things that needed to be done, first by being the right person at the right time, and later by being the only one capable enough to do it. I could accept the lack of agency she had, even if I didn't always like it. The threads of fate, and all that jazz.

However, being coerced into helping a teenager Kennar has known for all of an afternoon ascend to the throne of a nation she knows eff-all about is something she would have little trouble saying "no" to. We (as players) are even given a dialog option about not wanting to get involved, but it's completely negated by G'raha saying, "Come on. Come oooOOOnnnnn!" True, he does give us an out, but I'll eat my hat if anything works out that way.

As for the other justifications:

"But that's the way they do things in Tural!"
So? Find someone else. If G'raha and Krile want to help, more power to them. Kennar will cheer them on from the stands.

"But if the bad guy wins, he will invade Eorzea!"
So? Isn't that why the Scions spent so much time establishing the Eorzean Alliance? They need to handle their own shit sometime. If they can't muster a defense against a foreign military that has to cross a vast, mostly uncharted sea, then that's their problem.


From a narrative standpoint, I want to see my character actually do something, rather than go along for the ride. I think it would have been awesome if the WoL would have started the new story, instead of being pulled into it. It would be easy to send letters to the Scions saying, "I'm traveling to the Neu Wirlde to see what's up. If you want to come with, meet me in Limsa in a month." I wanted us to go with no goals aside from seeing what's there--adventuring in the purest sense. Then we can meet new characters and get caught up in new stories. But now it looks like we're going to be stuck in a *shudder* tournament arc.

There at least better be a lot of fanservice in the beach episode...

[MikkoAkure]

Given how horrific I find EW moral messaging, I was hoping, beyond hope, they'd change directions, but no, they are doubling down on having the WoL do bad things while assuring us they are good things actually. And if I don't simply agree, go along with it and enjoy my colonialist adventure, then clearly there is something wrong with me as a person.

There is nothing at all in the story saying that we’re going to Tural to colonize them. You made this up on your own.

People have problems with your posts because it feels like you purposefully choose the least charitable take you can make and then make a twitter-worthy emotionally-charged rant.

We are not going to Tural to plunder their resources and enslave their people. Nothing at all in the story suggests that. And as I said before, and what you must have completely missed, one of the four claimants to the throne is actively interested in invading us. Unless you believe that all countries should be free to invade others with no interference from the people to be invaded, it is in our best interest to at least go there to see what’s up.

In addition, Wuk Lumat is not the only claimant to the throne interested in outside help as another has been in Sharlayan this whole time and he or another claimant has already hired Urianger and Thancred. No government officials at all are going to Tural. Just a bunch of mercenaries.

Mamool Ja mercenaries have been in Limsa Lominsa for 5 years and some have even broken away to make their own society in Vylbrand, butchered the locals to make their own castle, and actively assault adventurers. I don’t believe we’re going to Tural to do the same thing and the idea of such is flawed.