Politics

[Lady_Silvermoon]

*snip*

Every argument that we have to put this random person in charge of a country and it's army for peace in our time ignores that not only do we not know any of her policies on anything, there are two other contestants. I'm sure all these people will be super grateful when we show up and install their leader for them based on "well, she asked."

[Vallavia]

I can agree that the writing is very clumsy though (nuanced political writing isn't exactly FF14's strong suit in my opinion tbh...).

Because yeah, it's very rushed that we decide to go there in such a short period of time and the whole arc of "getting to know each other on a hunt" felt rather random and not really effective (though Erenville vouching for her really does help). I place the blame on the time constraint that came with their poor planning of having to cramp the set-up for Dawntrail into a 0.0.5 sub-patch. I wish they had set up Dawntrail during the entire post EW patch phase but I digress.

So in short, unsatisfying, rushed writing that doesn't capture political nuances? Absolutely. Colonialization? No, I really disagree.

The previously poorly executed political storylines and the fact that the writers are so hastily trying to distance themselves from all existing vaguely political narratives is what makes me believe that the succession contest is going to either be a nonissue or immediately pushed to the side for 80-90% of the expansion. I don't want to spoil the Endwalker role quests in their entirety, but all five of them and the Role Master quest had an air of frantic housekeeping to address any remaining cultural divisions so they can close the shutters on Eorzea and her allies for the foreseeable future. Not what I would have liked, but it seems it's where we are. I imagine it's one of the reasons Bozja got shelved with that massive hook left open at the end, too, and Garlemald is by far the worst example, as you alluded elsewhere in your post. I want to hope that this is a tacit acknowledgement that political intrigue isn't FFXIV's strongest suit, and that all those unsatisfying conclusions to long arcs weren't to just trade them in for another mediocre matters-of-state story.

I do think we could have had a more cautious "I'll come to Tural but I'm not agreeing to help you yet" option when we speak to Wuk Lamat and say we'll come with her. Otherwise it feels like either the WoL has pushed doubts aside and is all-in on helping her, or else is pretending to be all-in while keeping their true opinion hidden, where I would have liked the option to be more open about having doubts and still potentially saying no once we get the full story.

I really thought that after the chat with G'raha the ultimate conclusion was going to be "I'll come along with you, but we're going for Krile first", especially since Wuk Lamat didn't really give any indication that there was a ton of urgency to give her our answer immediately.

[SannaR]

Even though yes the WoL is a member of a Grand Company that is very rarely ever brought up by most people. The only time it does is by members of said Grand Company. And even then it's mostly an "Oh yeah, I forgot that you're X rank of Y Grand Company. Anyway how about you hand out some soup?"

I also would have liked it if we could have expressed our learyness of wanting to go there just to help Wuk Lamat even if Erenville vouches for her. The WoL is going there because we were invited and asked to help with Wuk Lamat's claim to the throne. I'm sure wanting to go there and find out how warmongery the one claimant is part of our agreement to go there. The twins are going there for research purposes in hopes they learn how a multicultural nation goes about keeping the peace amongst other things in hopes that they'll be able to help Garlemald. Krile is going there to figure out who sent a letter and why it mentions the fabled city of Gold. Thancred and Urianger are going most likely at the behest of the Miqo'te brother. Which just leaves the 4th claimant being an unknown.

Estinien is going there cause he has gotten a case of wanderlust and probably doesn't even know about the fight for the throne. We don't even know how or why Y'shtola will get roped into any of this and so far it looks like G'Raha is also staying behind for now and if you poke him is looking to find ways of fattening his purse. Either by doing treasure maps or some other way. I for one get the feeling that they will be trying to use 7.0 as a slow shedding of the cast. As all the Twins seem to have on their minds is how do we help our new bestie Jullus and their people get back on their feet and continue the ball rolling. While we all have assumed Y'shtola will step out of the light once she learns a less expensive way to shard travel. With Thancred and Urianger being the traveling odd couple that we might run into from time to time.

[Cleretic]

I think it's helpful that Wuk Lamat is clearly pretty genuine and honest. We've seen how bad she is at lying, after all. We clearly don't have the full picture and we've got the text of 'try to figure out what's going on before getting involved', but by both Erenville's vouching and our experience of Wuk herself, she clearly isn't the reason we don't have it. Partially that's because she's our human(oid) face of Tural, but I think it helps give a bit of soft assurance.

We're inevitably allying with Wuk Lamat... but we can also be confident that she's not manipulating us, and that she's going to be just as mad as we are when we learn who is.

[EdwinLi]

The previously poorly executed political storylines and the fact that the writers are so hastily trying to distance themselves from all existing vaguely political narratives is what makes me believe that the succession contest is going to either be a nonissue or immediately pushed to the side for 80-90% of the expansion. I don't want to spoil the Endwalker role quests in their entirety, but all five of them and the Role Master quest had an air of frantic housekeeping to address any remaining cultural divisions so they can close the shutters on Eorzea and her allies for the foreseeable future. Not what I would have liked, but it seems it's where we are. I imagine it's one of the reasons Bozja got shelved with that massive hook left open at the end, too, and Garlemald is by far the worst example, as you alluded elsewhere in your post. I want to hope that this is a tacit acknowledgement that political intrigue isn't FFXIV's strongest suit, and that all those unsatisfying conclusions to long arcs weren't to just trade them in for another mediocre matters-of-state story.



I really thought that after the chat with G'raha the ultimate conclusion was going to be "I'll come along with you, but we're going for Krile first", especially since Wuk Lamat didn't really give any indication that there was a ton of urgency to give her our answer immediately.

I say Aymeric had the better development when it came to understanding him as a political leader. We got a good amount of time to understand his personality during 2.X, then we understand his political stance in Ishgard through 3.0, and we finish off his rise to being Ishgard current leader in 3.X which during this time he provided concerns about being picked as the leader with among concerns involving people's views of seeing him being maybe a puppet for the Eorzea Alliance or that him taking up position as the new leader of Ishgard may see it as another attempt for political power between family members. Of course in the end the majority of Ishgard voted for him as their new leader.

Hien on the other hand, we never did get much time to know him as a person, political leader, and his stance on how he will handle his leadership long term with any potential concerns he may have. It was rather rush to get him to being the new leader for Doma due to the Plan for causing a split in Garlean's Forces so we have a advantage in Eorzea taking back Ala Mhigo. However, as we have seen in Post-Stormblood events, he has been free to develop his country the way he intended without any outside influence. Of course the major problem he is dealing with mostly comes from the people who are far too use to the old ways of things and events involving the people of Doma who were conscripted into the Garlean Forces since the people have mixed feelings for those who became conscripted into the Garlean Army returning to Doma.

I think it's helpful that Wuk Lamat is clearly pretty genuine and honest. We've seen how bad she is at lying, after all. We clearly don't have the full picture and we've got the text of 'try to figure out what's going on before getting involved', but by both Erenville's vouching and our experience of Wuk herself, she clearly isn't the reason we don't have it. Partially that's because she's our human(oid) face of Tural, but I think it helps give a bit of soft assurance.

We're inevitably allying with Wuk Lamat... but we can also be confident that she's not manipulating us, and that she's going to be just as mad as we are when we learn who is.

While she is open and honest, she does give me the feeling that she is "the last person the people of Tural will pick as a leader" trope type character. She does show some of those classic signs being fearful during certain moments that can end up fatal, probably not the smartest of the candidates, way too open for the more subtle game of politics, and way too ready to start a fight.

[Cilia]

Yeah, the 6.x lead writer (or writers) is completely unknown, save that they're working under the same overall system and structure.

My gut says it was a Daichi Hiroi story, because it generally seems to fit what he seems to put in, but that's just vibe. And given that going by 6.0's credits there's forty people that could be called 'writers', it's entirely possible that we just won't have any idea because it could be that unseen rest of the iceberg.

If you sit through the 6.X credits, Hiroi is listed as the lead writer, with Ishikawa and Oda in supporting roles.

A quick Google says Hiroi and Oda are collaborating on Dawntrail's Main Scenario, or Hiroi is otherwise going it alone. (Direction, not literally writing the whole thing.)

Will you please stop discussing me as a person. It's weird. If you take issue with the things I say, discuss the things I say.

I addressed all of your talking points, kiddo!

tl;dr: The Scions as an organization no longer exist, the PC is going to Tural as a freelance mercenary, the contest not only allows but encourages it, Wuk Lamat has shown no ill intent, and Erenville has nothing bad to say about her (even if her boorish manners exasperate him).

We're not a representative of the Eorzean government; we are, at best, a mid-level Grand Company officer acting without orders, and the story is framed very much as us acting in the capacity of a freelance mercenary. The "colonizer" argument makes zero sense; we aren't going there to prepare Tural for colonization or install a puppet ruler, but to support a rightful claimant to the throne who asked us to help her in a culturally appropriate and permissible manner. We have no clue what her policies are, but given Wuk Lamat's exuberant and outgoing personality and condemnation of warmongering I have a very hard time believing she would be a bad choice, inexperience with ruling notwithstanding.

As a freelance mercenary, the PC is free to support (or not support) any claimant to the throne they choose. Furthermore, we have no idea what this contest actually entails, and however powerful the PC may be their martial might isn't likely to be enough to win right out; if that were the case there wouldn't be much of a story.

I... don't know how or why you think the PC acting in the capacity of a freelance mercenary constitutes colonization. I'm genuinely confused. The rest is just paranoia.

[SannaR]

I addressed all of your talking points, kiddo!

tl;dr: The Scions as an organization no longer exist, the PC is going to Tural as a freelance mercenary, the contest not only allows but encourages it, Wuk Lamat has shown no ill intent, and Erenville has nothing bad to say about her (even if her boorish manners exasperate him).

We're not a representative of the Eorzean government; we are, at best, a mid-level Grand Company officer acting without orders, and the story is framed very much as us acting in the capacity of a freelance mercenary. The "colonizer" argument makes zero sense; we aren't going there to prepare Tural for colonization or install a puppet ruler, but to support a rightful claimant to the throne who asked us to help her. We have no clue what her policies are, but given Wuk Lamat's exuberant and outgoing personality and condemnation of warmongering I have a very hard time believing she would be a bad choice, inexperience with ruling notwithstanding.

As a freelance mercenary, the PC is free to support (or not support) any claimant to the throne they choose. Furthermore, we have no idea what this contest actually entails, and however powerful the PC may be their martial might isn't likely to be enough to win right out; if that were the case there wouldn't be much of a story.

I... don't know how or why you think the PC acting in the capacity of a freelance mercenary constitutes colonization. I'm genuinely confused. The rest is just paranoia.

They see it that way cause points to their last reply to Mikko Venat did a bad that's so bad that they're allowing it to affect them to the point where they can't even think about trying to catch the Ruby Dargon (or whatever they set out to do in game) without going oh my law my WoL is an accomplice in Venat's doing a bad. You know the part of a story that normally sets up and isn't explored much if at all by the writers to explain why the world is the way it is at the time frame the story you are reading, watching or playing through is happening. That for the most part is normally again not explored as that is probably the part of the world building that has the most flaws and holes in it. As if one were to do so you will have a high chance of finding out that all the smart leaders of the past and or the present (depending on how far back the TDLR set up happened before the story takes place) were very stupid for dumb reasons. That even if you have qualms about you knew had to happen in some fashion for again the present story you are experiencing to take place.

[Chasingstars]

Unless its some side content, the colonialism is probably going to be from in-fighting from the various peoples who have been experiencing peace, maybe some foreigner eorezans who are looking to make a quick buck. Like it would be a real kick the dog moment if evil npcs go after the Whalaqee's Lapis Canyon.

As that blue mage book in 6.55 might be a red herring, or it could be foreshadowing. Of a book talking about one of the natives to Tural, how this tribe of natives highly value nature, how they view the aforementioned Lapis Canyon as sacred when its just one giant ceruleum deposit.

And it wouldn't be the first time as in the 1-50 quests you do deal with that as a blue mage. But it will be much like the Bard (Song of Oblivion) or Dancer (Dance of the Damned) was for endwalker. And as a blue mage you also have to deal with a mining company that wants to use you as hired muscled. Follow with me as it will make sense.

After all ceruleum is a highly valued liquid found in the earth and its also highly flammable. Which would be equivalent to black oil in our world which is known as "black gold". So one could say that ceruleum is "blue gold". While I use the world gold here, I think its evident that the City of Gold is seperate from this and its Sector 9. So that what I am getting at here, is this location:

After all it looks like a boom town for a "blue gold" rush, with train tracks and ceruleum smoke stacks. Even a bar with eorezan writing, which we already know is distinctly foreign compared to the Tural writing.

After all if the story is about how one of Wuk Lamat's siblings is an ego-manical powerhungry dictator who wants the throne to go wage war with the desolated land of garlemald, what would be the reason other than revenge? Ceruleum and Garlean Tech. And what better way to show how bad a person is how they will exploit their own and land people to amass that kind of military might.

Or it could just be some eorezans who are entirely seperate from the plot, maybe greedy ul'dah lalafells from a mining company.

[Cleretic]

[...]and way too ready to start a fight.

While not entirely related, I am interested to see more about Wuk Lamat's relationship with violence. She's definitely a proud warrior (both lowercase and capitalized), and definitely someone who likes a good fight... but she's also here entirely to avoid someone declaring war. There's definitely some interesting complexity to be had here, that we've only seen the tip of.

My guess is that she might actually be fairly inexperienced at violence to a greater end, for a purpose beyond base survival or the social element of sparring and hunting. Which, rather sadly, would be something that we and the twins could provide some wisdom on.

[MikkoAkure]

Even a bar with eorezan writing, which we already know is distinctly foreign compared to the Tural writing.

I thought Wuk Lamat said something along the lines of Tural adopting Eorzean as a unifying language between all of the different people that make up the country so that no one native language or culture dominates the others. Harmony between the local peoples is achieved by adopting a foreign script/tongue for inter-tribal communication. I don't believe that the bar sign necessarily means Eorzeans are directly involved but it's still a possibility. Just as I am still interested in how distinctly US-ish the aesthetic of Xak Tural is compared to Yok Tural though and if it has anything to do with Limsa Lominsa's influence during the initial exploration 80 years ago or Merlwyb's recent reestablished contact starting 20 years ago.


On a side note, "Yok" is obviously "South" and "Xak" is obviously "North". "Wuk" seems very similar to those and it wouldn't be unusual to name such an important character something symbolic so I wonder if "Wuk" is "West". I wonder if that would also mean that "Vik" or Vek" is "East".