Politics

[Rookie1]

Aren't the scions supposed to be neutral. We're not supposed to get involved with politics of a realm. How is it okay to take sides in succession?

If this is okay why didn't we just overthrow the monetarist when they were giving us trouble?

[Cleretic]

The Scions, as an organization, were neutral, and focused on the primals/Calamities/Ascians as a problem, only getting involved when necessary. Granted, their focus problem often got entangled in political machinations anyway, so they still had to get involved with it. But nominally, they were neutral.

Individual members of the Scions are politically tilted as all hell. Specifcally that's Alphinaud's whole bag, but G'raha and Estinien had their moments too, in ex-Scions we've got Arenvald and Lyse, and I think you'd find it hard to say Thancred's hands have been completely clean. This tracks since they almost all consider Louisoix a mentor, a man who specifically struck off from Sharlayan because he disagreed with their isolationist, 'neutral' tendencies. This is, like, the third or fourth time the Scions have been a major part of some sort of change of political power... and unlike all the others, this is the only time we were straight-up invited. And with the Scions as an organization disbanded, they can do whatever they want.

There's two big reasons they didn't depose the Monetarists, though.
1. With the Scions effectively being 'neutral unless provoked', they never had any great reason to move.
And 2. You need a damn good plan to depose the Monetarists, you saw what happened when you don't.

[Lyth]

These are good questions.

I'm sure that the Scions of the Seventh Dawn would have an objection to meddling in political affairs, if they still existed. Unfortunately, they disbanded some time ago, if I remember correctly. In this situation, what matters most is the Turali people's values and cultural beliefs around the succession:

MSQ

G'raha: 'I understand your reasons, but this being an event that will dictate a course of your nation's future, is it appropriate for outsiders like us to be involved?'

Wuk Lamat: 'Oh, it's more than appropriate. The Dawnservant himself expressly encourages it. The ruler of Tural must navigate the intricacies of myriad cultures, and there's no better way to prove oneself qualified to do so than to work with foreign allies.' (Lv.90, The Game is Afoot)

Based off this interaction, it seems that it would be insensitive of us to forcibly impose our own Eorzean 'hands-off' philosophy on others, especially when we know that Tural deliberately takes a more collaborative approach to their own succession process. Of course, it's also reasonable to abstain from forming a personal opinion on the succession despite being invited to do so, if you so wish:

MSQ

G'raha: What about you, my friend? Are you inclined to accept or refuse Wuk Lamat's request?

> 'I'd rather not get involved in politics.'

G'raha: 'If only others had the same good sense. If the prospect troubles you so, why not consider what you stand to gain instead? That is, an exciting journey to a faraway continent. In the course of seeing new lands and meeting new people, you might find yourself moved to help Wuk Lamat after all. And if not, well... you quietly take your leave.' (Lv.90, The Coming Dawn)

I personally want to see all the candidates and understand their motivations before I formulate an opinion.

I think there's one more consideration to make. As a shard of Azem, we're descended from a member of an elite, nepotistic circle of tyrannical despots who unilaterally made decisions on behalf of the rest of the world for thousands of years. From a roleplaying perspective, we need more opportunities to lean into that. There is a fantastic opportunity for us to build a clique of powerful friends that goes on to form a world government for the entire planet, ushering the shards into a new era of prosperity under our iron fist. Now that the Scions and Ascians are no more, we finally have the potential to make that dream into a reality. Consider the following:

Hildibrand

Vanhudi: Let's get straight to the point: I want you at my side. With the Vaunted Warrior of Light as the template for my clone army, we could conquer this and every other land in creation!

> 'That... that's not a bad idea, actually.'

Hildibrand: 'Ah... ha ha ha! A splendid jest, my friend. A splendid and... not-at-all-indicative-of-suppressed-megalomaniacal-ambitions jest... yes?'

<long silence>

(Lv.90, Gentlemen at Heart)

As you might have inferred, Square Enix has several years of engagement metric data from forum posts on the previous story arc, so they seem to have anticipated all the talking points already. I don't think there's a right answer for everyone, but it's looking to be an entertaining ride.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

As far as the world knows the Scions have "disbanded." These are just private citizens using their ample (literally god-given) strength to put into power a person they've known for five minutes, cause she asked.

If this doesn't blow up in our face, I'm gonna be so mad. Who does this? Nice to meet you, Wuk Lamat. Please enjoy your continent and all it's military strength we just handed you. Hope you don't turn out to be evil!

[EdwinLi]

As far as the world knows the Scions have "disbanded." These are just private citizens using their ample (literally god-given) strength to put into power a person they've known for five minutes, cause she asked.

If this doesn't blow up in our face, I'm gonna be so mad. Who does this? Nice to meet you, Wuk Lamat. Please enjoy your continent and all it's military strength we just handed you. Hope you don't turn out to be evil!

That would be a issue if it was not for the part we have a person we know we can trust vouch for her already being Erenville. He has known her since childhood and constantly return to Tural even before events of his introduction to the story to keep updated on the situation in Tural.

This is partly Erenville request for help as well since he does not want his home nation end up becoming another Garlean Empire. The Golden City part was just a last addition for him since he never had any real clues where to start until now.

[MikkoAkure]

As far as the world knows the Scions have "disbanded." These are just private citizens using their ample (literally god-given) strength to put into power a person they've known for five minutes, cause she asked.

If this doesn't blow up in our face, I'm gonna be so mad. Who does this? Nice to meet you, Wuk Lamat. Please enjoy your continent and all it's military strength we just handed you. Hope you don't turn out to be evil!

Only the WoL has any “god-given” strength and the rest of the Scions minus Krile don’t even have the benefit of the Echo.

And then… (MSQ)

We were told that one of the claimants of the throne has eyes on invading us now that the war is over and everyone is spent. We have more than a little bit of a reason to go there to at least scope things out and gather intelligence on what’s happening to defend Eorzea from a possible invasion. It’s ridiculous to ignore it and do nothing just because some people might think it’s “problematic”.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

That would be a issue if it was not for the part we have a person we know we can trust vouch for her already being Erenville and he has known her since childhood and constantly return to Tural even before events of his introduction to the story to keep updated on the situation in Tural.

This is partly Erenville request for help as well since he does not want his home nation end up becoming another Garlean Empire. The Golden City part was just a last addition for him since he never had any real clues where to start until now.

Didn't Erenville downplay his relationship with her in the dinner scene? Plus Ilberd used to be friends with Raubahn and we saw how that worked out for him.

And the invasion thing makes it worse. It means we're going as kingmaker to a country we've never been to in order to install someone who will serve our political interests. We're doing a colonialism, and just because the person we're installing insures us they are into that sort of thing doesn't make it right. There are four contestants, only one wants to conquer us. Is no one even gonna ask why she has to travel to a continent where no one knows who she is to get help in this contest?

This is dumb. We are doing a dumb. And hopefully, we are doing a dumb so the story can teach us why it's dumb to do what we're doing.

[EdwinLi]

Didn't Erenville downplay his relationship with her in the dinner scene? Plus Ilberd used to be friends with Raubahn and we saw how that worked out for him.

And the invasion thing makes it worse. It means we're going as kingmaker to a country we've never been to in order to install someone who will serve our political interests. We're doing a colonialism, and just because the person we're installing insures us they are into that sort of thing doesn't make it right. There are four contestants, only one wants to conquer us. Is no one even gonna ask why she has to travel to a continent where no one knows who she is to get help in this contest?

This is dumb. We are doing a dumb. And hopefully, we are doing a dumb so the story can teach us why it's dumb to do what we're doing.

I think you've been watching too many Game of Thrones or something to assume every single political person we just met is down right 100% Evil or the whole Ilberd incident is just been stuck in your head for years that you lost all trust in everyone political related.

A lot of the other political characters that got us into certain nations did not end up being a Ilberd situation and we barely known them beyond a few attempt to help us to grain a small amount of trust. Even then WoL stance on them been rather neutral, trusting because the words of someone else we trust, or cautious until they enter the region to assess the situation based on what dialogue choice you make most of the time.

[Palladiamors]

Didn't Erenville downplay his relationship with her in the dinner scene? Plus Ilberd used to be friends with Raubahn and we saw how that worked out for him.

And the invasion thing makes it worse. It means we're going as kingmaker to a country we've never been to in order to install someone who will serve our political interests. We're doing a colonialism, and just because the person we're installing insures us they are into that sort of thing doesn't make it right. There are four contestants, only one wants to conquer us. Is no one even gonna ask why she has to travel to a continent where no one knows who she is to get help in this contest?

This is dumb. We are doing a dumb. And hopefully, we are doing a dumb so the story can teach us why it's dumb to do what we're doing.

Do you...do this often? Interpret things differently then they are presented? The country we are going to ENCOURAGES this sort of thing, on the reasoning that being able to navigate and secure assistance from a foreign body is a necessary part of ruling a kingdom. Our claimant is officially endorsed, meaning we're backing one candidate in a way said kingdom encourages, not 'installing' or *shudders* doing a colonization. Further no one just accepted without hesitation, no one has said yes yet, it is literally stated that we are going to see the place for ourselves and make up our mind when we get there. That's not even subtext, it's straight up text. Erenville is going because of the golden city, Krile is going because of her grandfather, and the twins are going because we're going. The only two set on backing anyone are Thancred and Urianger and they probably have a lot more intel than we do.

[Cilia]

A few things to remember here:

1. The Scions of the Seventh Dawn have been formally disbanded and no longer act as the (functional) independent paramilitary organization they did from 2.0 until the end of 6.0. (Technically as a combination of the Path of the Twelve and the Circle of Knowing from Legacy, it's been around in some form or another since 1.0, but I digress.) The Scions can't meddle in politics because the organization no longer exists - its former members still associate with one another, natch, but beyond that it's a defunct organization.

2. As such, the PC choosing to go to Tural (and implicitly support Wuk Lamat in her bid for the throne) is nothing more than a freelance mercenary working a job - and probably pro bono at that. (Or getting paid so little it may as well be pro bono, I think I'm only getting paid ~5,000 gil + food per quest right now...) They aren't an Eorzean emissary, dignitary, or envoy, and as such do not and can not represent Eorzean interests beyond, you know... not wanting a warmonger on the throne.

3. The contest not only allows claimants to acquire outside help but encourages it; it's not foreigners "kingmaking" but would-be kings (or queens) working diplomacy to improve their chances of success.

3a. We have no reason whatsoever to think Wuk Lamat is up to no good. While Daichi Hiroi's actual narrative writing skills have thus far left much to be desired from me, he is excellent at creating and introducing interesting and likeable characters and Wuk Lamat is no exception; on the contrary, her openness is likely to be a liability in the political arena (assuming Tuliyollal has the "decadent court" political climate people are so obviously assuming it does). Besides which, while Erenville obviously isn't fond of her... less than regal bearing, he doesn't have anything really negative to say about Wuk Lamat, and we've no reason to suspect him of deception or treachery either (and have known him for a short while to boot).

We're a freelance mercenary going at the behest of someone who personally asked us for help (and was encouraged to do so as per the rules of the game), not a conquistador attempting to install a puppet ruler for imperialistic goals. C'mon guys...