[Feedback] Wuk Lamat's English Voice

[sindriiisgaming]

Reminder
not just a bad voice actor, also a bad person

I see. That does make her look bad.

why cant we just criticise the voice? why does it need to keep turning into this. if her voice is the issue, why do people keep mentioning this.. is it really such a big deal what she said on twitter years ago? who cares what she thinks.. it wont ever effect you.

[Turnintino]

I'm often peeved when suddenly an NPC from a particular region suddenly breaks that, as was the case in Thavnair a few times during the MSQ (likely a cost cutting measure by SE but still immersion breaking).

First of all, I agree. But while the way they tend to reuse their cast is certainly a resource-cutting measure (less time spent searching for additional talent, but ultimately the actors are still being paid for the additional labor), I think it's harder to say for sure if the inconsistent use of accents is a creative decision or a practical one. Jay Saighal portrays both Matsya and Nahbdeen, for example; both characters are Thavnairian, but they have different accents, despite the fact that Matsya proves Saighal can affect Indian English. On one hand, I don't think it's unreasonable to theorize that the different accents are used to distinguish the character's voices (despite the fact that the characters never interact, iirc). On the other hand, the performances -- from cadence, to pitch, to tone of voice -- are already so different between the two characters that I would argue that wasn't really necessary, if indeed that was the reason. If it were, I think just lowering his pitch even more for Nahbdeen would've done the trick (listen to Saighal's performance as Nald'thal to hear him really project that lower register lol). So I'm partial to the idea that it was probably more a creative decision, personally, but that's conjecture, either way.

Anyway, while I do prefer consistency when it comes to things like this that inform the game's world-building, sometimes even that consistency is implemented in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense. The Viera/Hrothgar's Scandinavian accents are a chief example. Lyna has it despite being raised by G'raha. Runar has one despite being raised among the Night's Blessed. Depending on what we may or may not learn about Erenville's upbringing, he may be another example (and signs point to 'yes', based on what we know so far). The consequent implication that their accents are somehow genetic is a pretty stupid one, at least barring broader vocative characteristics that could be explained by actual physical differences (i.e., the long since abandoned catlike vocal ticks that some Miqo'te NPCs had in 2.x). And it's difficult to argue around that in the way one could conceivably attempt to hand-wave the array of accents in Thavnair.

Anyway, sorry to derail y'all's debate about whether or not transphobes are transphobic or whatever lmao.

[AlexiaD]

Reminder
not just a bad voice actor, also a bad person

I love how the people defending Sena are actually ignoring this on purpose.

[Erzaa]

First of all, I agree. But while the way they tend to reuse their cast is certainly a resource-cutting measure (less time spent searching for additional talent, but ultimately the actors are still being paid for the additional labor), I think it's harder to say for sure if the inconsistent use of accents is a creative decision or a practical one. Jay Saighal portrays both Matsya and Nahbdeen, for example; both characters are Thavnairian, but they have different accents, despite the fact that Matsya proves Saighal can affect Indian English. On one hand, I don't think it's unreasonable to theorize that the different accents are used to distinguish the character's voices (despite the fact that the characters never interact, iirc). On the other hand, the performances -- from cadence, to pitch, to tone of voice -- are already so different between the two characters that I would argue that wasn't really necessary, if indeed that was the reason. If it were, I think just lowering his pitch even more for Nahbdeen would've done the trick (listen to Saighal's performance as Nald'thal to hear him really project that lower register lol). So I'm partial to the idea that it was probably more a creative decision, personally, but that's conjecture, either way.

Anyway, while I do prefer consistency when it comes to things like this that inform the game's world-building, sometimes even that consistency is implemented in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense. The Viera/Hrothgar's Scandinavian accents are a chief example. Lyna has it despite being raised by G'raha. Runar has one despite being raised among the Night's Blessed. Depending on what we may or may not learn about Erenville's upbringing, he may be another example (and signs point to 'yes', based on what we know so far). The consequent implication that their accents are somehow genetic is a pretty stupid one, at least barring broader vocative characteristics that could be explained by actual physical differences (i.e., the long since abandoned catlike vocal ticks that some Miqo'te NPCs had in 2.x). And it's difficult to argue around that in the way one could conceivably attempt to hand-wave the array of accents in Thavnair.

Yes, all valid points. I don't believe it can be argued that accents are genetic, because if they were, Wuk Lamat would also have a Scandinavian accent, she's Hrothgar afterall.

Also, The First is a mirror of The Source, it's believable that they share many similarities in such a case, including the fact that Viis of the Rak'tika Greatwood mirror Viera from the Golmore and Skatay. As for Lyna, my impression was that she was from Rak'tika and was taken in by the Exarch after she lost her parents at a young age. Depending on how young she was, her accent might've already been there.

Anyway, sorry to derail y'all's debate about whether or not transphobes are transphobic or whatever lmao.

Hahaha. I'm capable of separating the art from the artist. I still feel Wuk Lamat's voice was good, and I like the character alot. Hopefully, she'll be even better in Dawntrail.

Aside from that, if what the others said about her post on Twitter is true, it really does make her look bad and a little hypocritical.

[Turnintino]

Aside from that, if what the others said about her post on Twitter is true, it really does make her look bad and a little hypocritical.

I understand how and why people are calling it hypocritical, but I also understand that she's coming at this issue from the perspective of someone in a minority group. One that is already afforded very little opportunity to work in the industry in question except to play trans roles, which, historically, have often been taken by cisgender actors anyway. That's happening less and less often in film, but voice-over has been slower to follow (but has been following) because we never see the actor, so the suspension of disbelief is more generous. But whether or not she's a hypocrite for taking a presumably cisgender role is really neither here nor there, IMO, because trans actors are simply not on an equal playing field with cis actors to begin with -- which is the core of the issue. And personally, I think it's difficult to argue that she's stealing a cis actor's job in a game where they are incredibly well-represented in the cast lol (and where many of them are doubling, tripling, quadrupling up on roles anyway, as I pointed out earlier).

Regardless of our thoughts on it, though, it's clear that the industry is on her side. Since Stormblood, the English side of production has made an effort to cast Asian actors for Asian-coded characters (including the Indian-coded Thavnairians in Endwalker), Scandinavian actors where their accents were called for, etc., while also putting those same actors in less type-cast roles (Sheena Bhattessa plays Nidhana, but she also plays Azeyma and Barbariccia).

And we can take issue with her ability if we'd like, but Bryer is here to stay for presumably the entirety of 7.x, since recording will have been completed (or soon will be) this close to launch. Petitioning for either her improvement or replacement is an utter waste of time and energy at this stage. If her haters are lucky, she'll be recast for what will no doubt be incredibly limited appearances in future expansions (unless she gets inducted into whatever the not-not-Scions are calling themselves now lol), if indeed she ever has another voiced scene again after 7.x.

[Burmecia]

Reminder
not just a bad voice actor, also a bad person

Oh yeah, this was a whole bunch of stupid.
Of her. Be better.

[sindriiisgaming]

I love how the people defending Sena are actually ignoring this on purpose.

Im not ignoring it, but im not some sword for hire to start attacking her for it, its not my problem. to many ppl think this is some social justice crusade

[SDaemon]

I love how the people defending Sena are actually ignoring this on purpose.

I can like Wuk Lamat's voice work and enjoy her character as well as find her VA's comment hypocritical. The 2 stances are not mutually exclusive.

[NonBinaryNyan]

Care to explain for someone who doesn't read Twitter and doesn't follow anime?

VA from a minority group that is often not accepted for roles outside of that group's identity is frustrated by a significant role representing her identity being voiced by someone outside of the group.

Change is slowly coming, in regard to queer and trans people being able to be out *and* allowed to play cisgender or straight roles. However, it's still not an even playing field, and it's lagging even harder for trans folks.

It's similar (though not identical!) to frustrations when a mobile, non-disabled actor plays someone in a wheelchair--especially a character who is unable to walk. (I don't mean "they broke their leg badly so they're in a wheelchair until they heal up again," I mean characters for whom a wheelchair is a necessary tool in daily life.)

There are limited roles available for actors in wheelchairs, because there aren't many characters written who are. It's possible for studios to work around that with specific camera angles and basically engaging in the sorts of things that FDR did to minimize recognition of his disability, but that's not really a thing studios do. It's possible for disabled actors who use wheelchairs to play non-disabled characters if that character simply doesn't stand up and walk around, or doesn't do it much, but again, that's not really a thing studios do.

However, if someone WERE to do that, even if there were several instances going on, I don't think it'd be reasonable to accuse a disabled actor of being hypocritical if they were to go for a seated able person role, or use a bracing system to appear standing, AND if they also have a problem with able bodied actors taking wheelchair roles. The playing field, the chances for employment, are just so tremendously different. Just waving it off as hypocrisy ignores that.

I hope that helps the viewpoint make more sense.

Also, I think there's a difference between stating that you feel someone is encroaching by taking/holding a role and should step down, vs trying to campaign with her employers to have her removed.

Furthermore, most of the rest of Sena's thread was expressing frustrations with studios not even taking AUDITIONS from trans women for these trans characters, even when they've changed VA's between games, and the studio contacts apparently being rude or refusing to answer at all when asked about it.

It's great to see increasing levels of representation in characters, but why exclude actual live people from these communities in that representation?

[Mosha]

Also, I think there's a difference between stating that you feel someone is encroaching by taking/holding a role and should step down, vs trying to campaign with her employers to have her removed.

I strongly disagree with this as the end state is the same: the VA loses their job because of mob mentality. Plus people who believe that is "encroaching by taking/holding a role" would 100% go after employers too.