Make Deployment Tactics DPS Neutral

[ToodlesElNoodles]

I’m not here to discuss whether big shields are good or bad or any other thing.

The change to make WHM Lilies DPS neutral was a fantastic change, especially since SE wants WHMs to be using their lilies. That is, you shouldn’t be punished for doing the thing SE wants you to do.

Since the design philosophy for SCH is the big deploy, they should apply it here too since a major reason SCH healers despise DT is because it costs a Broil.

I think they should follow through on their philosophy and double the damage of the SCH’s next damage spell when they successfully deploy a Galvanize.

[Sani2341]

Considering they made sge shields overwrite sch shields regardless of the amount of dmg they each would (still) prevent, I am not sure 'spread big shields' is SEs take on SCH.
Though ever since they ripped all the dots out of it I am not sure what their idea of sch is any ways.


That said I would welcome a change like that. Giving a reason to actually use GCD heals for even just a few extra casts would at least put a little dent in the amount of broils thrown around.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Couple of things that came to my mind immediately if we get to double our next spell potency was to try to do it to boost my Biolysis for a whooping 1,400p DoT, and I'll probably start seeing people wasting deployment just for that then internally cry because those 30s shield just get wasted absorbing nothing.

[ForsakenRoe]

Rather than tying it to Deployment, maybe it'd make more sense to tie it to Catalyze shields (the crit one), such that Recitation becomes the 'makes Adlo damage neutral' button? It'd indirectly cause Deploy Adlo to be damage neutral, as the main target of the Adlo would have a Catalyze, but only that person as Catalyze does not spread via Deploy (so you don't have 8 instances of 'damage neutrality' on a raidwide). An effect for Catalyze which says 'returns damage to the enemy which breaks this shield, equal to Broil's potency', job done. That's how I'd do it at least, if I had to implement such a change.

Though personally, I don't necessarily agree that such a change would be good for the game's balance. The entire thing of 'it's a super strong shield, at the cost of a GCD' is a key thing for SCH's design and balance, if it did not have to worry about that, then it'd be stronger shielding, stronger mitigation suite AND stronger damage than SGE (even during prog) so SGE would likely start getting shunned from PF. I remember getting flak in P8S week 1 for playing SGE, because 'its shit damage, SCH is way stronger'. Went to check stats, turns out it was 60 DPS less at 95th% at the time. A change like this would cement that sentiment in the 'heard it on reddit, parrot it without any understanding' player circles

[rawker]

A quick fix is to make Deployment Tactics to instead add the Catalyze effect to Succor

[Aravell]

Why does everything have to be damage neutral? Do you really want the healer role to enter a dead end of meaningless choices where the only consequence is that you don't get to see this particular set of pretty lights because you used it before?

Honestly, if someone has a problem dropping one singular GCD of damage spell casts to set up a shield, then maybe they don't actually want to play a healer?

[AnotherPerson]

Why does everything have to be damage neutral? Do you really want the healer role to enter a dead end of meaningless choices where the only consequence is that you don't get to see this particular set of pretty lights because you used it before?

Honestly, if someone has a problem dropping one singular GCD of damage spell casts to set up a shield, then maybe they don't actually want to play a healer?

Everyone's so allergic to using GCD healing because GCD healing got a bad rep due to low and predictable damage in the current state of the game. :x There's rarely any instances of needing GCD healing outside of high-end content, and even then most of the healing is just done with oGCDs or damage neutral healing.

It would be nice to see GCD healing incentivized by cutting down on redundant healing skills for a change.

[Aravell]

Everyone's so allergic to using GCD healing because GCD healing got a bad rep due to low and predictable damage in the current state of the game. :x There's rarely any instances of needing GCD healing outside of high-end content, and even then most of the healing is just done with oGCDs or damage neutral healing.

It would be nice to see GCD healing incentivized by cutting down on redundant healing skills for a change.

I am aware that GCD healing is frowned upon by the community and it's also not incentivised by fight design. But I have to ask, if someone is so averse to GCD healing that they frown upon even casting one singular healing GCD in a span of 90 seconds, do they really want to play a healer in the first place?

This isn't really about design, it's about mindset. The reason lilies became damage neutral in the first place is because WHM players refuse to touch the lilies due to a damage loss, lilies were intended to be a partial refund, not a full refund, just like Ruin II is a partial refund when you have to move too far to slidecast. I'd argue that people who want to play a healer should understand the necessity of losing a cast of their damage spell if needs be.

[AnotherPerson]

Can you expand on why such damage neutral GCD healing should be incentivized? Is it significantly different from just weaving an oGCD shield (like consolation, or holos) with Broil?
Personally, I like tools that are DPS losses, because they give you a reason to make changes to your heal plan to gain DPS the next time you do the fight.

I didn't say damage neutral GCD healing should be incentivized. I said GCD healing should be incentivized. Too much free healing tools and predictable low incoming damage is what led people to being adverse to GCD healing in the first place - simply because there's never a reason to encourage its use. It's a skill that just eats up a hotbar slot when you have too many excessive healing skills.

[Sebazy]

Deployment was more interesting when we had other stuff that it could interact with it, Eg Eye for an Eye.

I wonder if it'd be neat to allow it to spread very specific healer buffs, aka WHM's PoM, AST cards etc, probably with a reduced potency to stop SCH becoming mandatory because of it.