7.0 Summoner Dreams?

[SirLeonhart]

Imagie if you will... Odin as a Demi Summon. giving you a 1-2-3 melee combo utilizing ruin/tri-disater/astral flow (for your 6 gcd while summoned) Zantetsuken Enkindle? sign me up! it would be intresting if we could choose the order of the demi we summoned (for mechanic alignment (melee uptime/range mobility) but limit it to not allow back to back summons of the same one (so we would alternate between Baha and Odin) push pheonix into an optional role if you absolutly NEED 2 ranged windows for mechanics or need a recovery... BUT give it some more utility like one instant cast free rez during its summon duration and an enhanced "Firebird Physick" if healers go down and you need to clutch a PF clear. this would allow SMN and RDM to fill similar roles/gear, allowing BLM and Picto to be more dps and Spellspeed focused. (also give us acess to Levi,Ramuh,Shiva Gemstone Summons and alternate them with the 3 we have every Demi Summon)

[Palladiamors]

Dreams? Getting the summoner I played from 2014 until Endwalker back.

[Supersnow845]

I seem of a class that doesn’t literally put me to sleep

[Noctavias]

lol Final fantasy 11's SMN was peak tbh... doubt we will ever see 14's smn be anything close to it lol.

[Flana]

The only Summoner dream I have is getting a class that iterated on Heavensward's design, rather than having it be thrown in the garbage 1 expansion later.

[SoloWingMetatron]

If I had the task of designing Summoner for FFXIV, I'd make it a true pet class first and foremost...In MMO's "Summoner" type jobs have always worked best when leaning into the pet class archetype in some way in my opinion.

My attempt at a rough draft. Suggestions welcome.

Summons
I would divide the Summons into 3 pet types (Melee/Ranged/DoT)

- Melee (Ruby/Topaz Carbuncle - Ifrit/Titan) - Summons that specialize in heavy single target damage. Ideal for bossing and singular enemies.
- Ranged (Emerald/Obsidian Carbuncle - Garuda/Ramuh) - Summons that specialize in AoE damage. Ideal for multiple/group targets.
- DoT (Sapphire/Moonstone Carbuncle - Leviathan/Shiva) - Summons that specialize on DoT damage. Multipurpose - Can be brought into combat to cast debilitating DoT's before being switched out for a Melee/Ranged Summon. (Unlocked at Lvl 50)
*Summon Glamour allows the player to choose which category each Summon appears in - Ability effects also change accordingly.

Summon Abilities:
Each Summon type would be a true pet that is permanently summoned at the players side (just like Carbuncle/Egi are now) - Summons will auto-attack during combat and have a number of priority "command" abilities that are executed by the player to command the Summon to perform the desired ability.

Melee/Ranged Summons:
- Ability 1 - Flat damage - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Ability 2 - Damage accompanied with a respective debuff (Stun, Heavy, Freeze, Paralyze) - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Enkindle 1 - Summons first signature ability - Requires 1 stack of Aetherflow to execute.
- Enkindle 2 - Summons second signature ability - Requires 2 stacks of Aetherflow to execute.(Unlocked at Lvl 60)

DoT Summons (Unlocked at Lvl 50):
- Ability 1 - Single target DoT - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Ability 2 - AoE DoT - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Enkindle 1 - Refresh DoTs - Requires 1 stack of Aetherflow.
- Enkindle 2 - Detonate DoTs for high damage - Requires 2 stacks of Aetherflow.(Unlocked at Lvl 60)

Demi Summons - (Bahamut/Phoenix/Odin):
Upon exhausting both Aetherflow Stacks, The player gains access to the Summon Demi ability - A large temporary Demi Summon will be called forth for a period of time and would function much like the current Demi's. However each Demi will fall into one of the 3 core pet types respectively. (Unlocked at Lvl 70 - 100)

- Melee - Odin - Close range, cleaves with Zantetsuken, applies vulnerability.
- Ranged - Bahamut - Functions as his 5.0 iteration, raw damage.
- DoT - Phoenix - Functions the same as his 5.0 iteration, however ability damage is applied via a burn DoT.

Summon Evolution:
- As the player levels up and grows as a Summoner so to do the Summons themselves.
- At specific level cap milestones (50/75/100) - The Summons appearance will change and evolve, becoming larger and more fully formed as the Summoner/Summon grows in power. The final forms looking something similar to that of the current Gemstone Summons.
*Summon Glamour would allow players to set which stage of evolution each Summon appears as.

Utility:
The player will also have access to a number of spells that will buff the Summon/Party in regards to damage output and defense.
- Rouse/Spur/Radiant Aegis/Searing Light

Summon Glamour:
A glamour system UI added to the player section of the menu.
- Themed on the pages of the Summoner's grimoire.
- Players can customize their Summons in a number of ways - Identity (eg - Ifrit glamoured to Ravana), Evolution Rank, Size
*This UI system could also double up for a Fairy glamour system on Scholar.

[SieyaM]

Snip

In the end, one of these pets would do marginally more damage than the other and that is what you would use, the other two might as well not exist and that's a lot of work to put in for two pets that will never see the light of day. Also for whatever reason pets never worked out very well in XIV, commands were prone to ghosting using up the CD but not executing.

[rawker]

snip

This can be circumvented by treating all summoned abilities as if the SMN casted it but the casting range will originate where the pet is located. This and just the pet plays an animation. Why? Us performing oGCDs abruptly terminates a previously playing animation to make way for the pressed oGCD's animation to play. So why not do the same with summoned pets?

Look at when we're having connection issues, the animation of the skills, even cast times, still play but the damage does not register.

Also to make it more responsive, pet movement should be faster than the players, even when we're under Sprint.

This change can also be done with SCH... and get rid of Seraph (Yes, I literally hate it but I'm forced to deal with the jank).

[SieyaM]

This can be circumvented by treating all summoned abilities as if the SMN casted it but the casting range will originate where the pet is located. This and just the pet plays an animation. Why? Us performing oGCDs abruptly terminates a previously playing animation to make way for the pressed oGCD's animation to play. So why not do the same with summoned pets?

Look at when we're having connection issues, the animation of the skills, even cast times, still play but the damage does not register.

Also to make it more responsive, pet movement should be faster than the players, even when we're under Sprint.

This change can also be done with SCH... and get rid of Seraph (Yes, I literally hate it but I'm forced to deal with the jank).

I don't know exactly how the code works for XIV but I have a feeling this is not a feasible solution, otherwise they would have done it for Searing Light instead of just having the summoner cast it, it also would have worked before the change when SMN still had pets to command and they never implemented such a change.

[SoloWingMetatron]

In the end, one of these pets would do marginally more damage than the other and that is what you would use, the other two might as well not exist and that's a lot of work to put in for two pets that will never see the light of day. Also for whatever reason pets never worked out very well in XIV, commands were prone to ghosting using up the CD but not executing.

The cynical side of me says you're correct. However this is an ideal situation, so in this instance SE would develop a new pet AI system to accompany such a job rework. If FFXI can do it with SMN, BST, PUP, DRG, then XIV definitely can (Unless the XIV engine really is getting beat by an engine from 2002?)

I'm sure there's numerous flaws in my Summoner idea - I just tried to create something that offered something as close to a true Summoner as I could think, whilst operating in the confines of XIV's core gameplay mechanics.

But if the difference in damage is truly just marginal then this is not really an issue I believe - because any and every game in existence that has multiple job, ability, gear and weapon options has the exact same issue. It is legitimately impossible to avoid. There will always be a collection of gear, weapons and abilities that outperform all others across each job and become the meta - XIV already suffers from this in every single job.

If we apply your argument to XIV as a whole then there would only be one weapon, one armour set, and only the meta abilities - everything else might aswell not exist. Which I guess is true for people who actively seek to play as meta builds across all the MMO's, RPG's, and any other genre with multiple choice.

But where would the heart and soul of these games be if all that was available was the "meta"? All you'd be left with is glamour options surely.