The Leveling Problem explained.

[typeaxiom]

I had no idea that giving all jobs a low-level AoE was now controversial. I suppose it's supposed to feel good when you go into a leveling roulette as dragoon and ninja and suddenly the only thing you can do is blink away at one target (and constantly getting interrupted because facing issues while attacking and running) while the bard and tank mow down groups and the healer gets to actually heal for once.

[Solakor]

Who would have thought that when you remove a resource to regulate your aoe spam, no teamplay in regards to aggro, powercreep the game so you can take more hits and heal more that the combat would start to feel like it's an afterthought.
These changes were made because ppl cried that TP, MP, aggro, healing are too "cumbersome" or whatever buzzword they could think for their own incompetence. This is comedy at this point.

[Supersnow845]

Who would have thought that when you remove a resource to regulate your aoe spam, no teamplay in regards to aggro, powercreep the game so you can take more hits and heal more that the combat would start to feel like it's an afterthought.
These changes were made because ppl cried that TP, MP, aggro, healing are too "cumbersome" or whatever buzzword they could think for their own incompetence. This is comedy at this point.

To be fair TP was atrociously designed, sprint consumed it, arrow evaporated it and in a random duty you would never know if you got a job that could actually keep TP up at a decent rate

The rest I agree, we bought on ourselves, tanks complaining about stances, DPS complaining about hitting agro buttons, healer complaining about mana, while I still disagree on the difficulty designs decisions on even basic things like how hard mobs hit its easy to see why we have the current beige dungeon design we have now

[Arohk]

These changes were made because ppl cried that TP, MP, aggro, healing are too "cumbersome" or whatever buzzword they could think for their own incompetence. This is comedy at this point.

Well, you see making changes like this have consequences and need additional changes. i really think people should be responsible to know how many enemies they can pull at once, there are only a few dungeons that allow for more than two packs of enemies before you are blocked by a door.
Dungeons are not difficult, there is no reason to artificially slow down players if they can or want to go faster. there are some dungeons that allow you for bigger pulls like the Gulg, but i have never managed to pull all 5 packs at the beginning, mos tpeople do 3-2 before the boss, but giving you the option to do all 5 packs is a good thing.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I had no idea that giving all jobs a low-level AoE was now controversial. I suppose it's supposed to feel good when you go into a leveling roulette as dragoon and ninja and suddenly the only thing you can do is blink away at one target (and constantly getting interrupted because facing issues while attacking and running) while the bard and tank mow down groups and the healer gets to actually heal for once.

I just assume it's defensiveness because I refuse to believe anyone argues in all seriousness that some jobs getting their first AoE at 15 and others at 40 is a well-considered, properly functioning game design because anyone who has done a leveling roulette in the past few years knows it's not.

[Jojoya]

I just assume it's defensiveness because I refuse to believe anyone argues in all seriousness that some jobs getting their first AoE at 15 and others at 40 is a well-considered, properly functioning game design because anyone who has done a leveling roulette in the past few years knows it's not.

Sastasha, Tam Tara and Copperbell were designed for single target damage because once upon a time tanks didn't have AoE at level 15. I think only ARC and THA had AoEs at that level.

As I pointed out above, only 2 DPS are missing an AoE by level 26 so once you get to Toto-Rak (sync to 27) it's going to be extremely rare that you end up in a party where only the tank has an AoE.

There is nothing wrong with having jobs with single target damage as part of their job identity early on. No one is cherry-picking who gets to go into Qarn on the basis of AoE.

[Iscah]

the problem is that they need to detach access to zones and non msq questlines from MSQ and make them level based instead.

Zone access is tied to the story and letting people just march into the Super Secret Place on a whim undermines the story's ability to keep it super secret.

As something of a compromise, I would not mind seeing an option for people to be eligible for dungeons beyond their story progress in roulettes to encourage participation there while still forcing people to make story progress if they want to queue fie a thing manually.

[Mostly_Raxus]

Zone access is tied to the story and letting people just march into the Super Secret Place on a whim undermines the story's ability to keep it super secret.

As something of a compromise, I would not mind seeing an option for people to be eligible for dungeons beyond their story progress in roulettes to encourage participation there while still forcing people to make story progress if they want to queue fie a thing manually.

I think having the ability to willingly spoil your self at your own choice is still better than the game forcing a spoiler on you because you did a leveling roulette.

my argument is for the sake of being able to enjoy the story instead of feeling like you have to rush or skip the story just to play with your friends in the content you want. for many this is not our first MMORPG, some new player want to get to raid with their friends, and the story will always come second to that.

[Jojoya]

I think having the ability to willingly spoil your self at your own choice is still better than the game forcing a spoiler on you because you did a leveling roulette.

my argument is for the sake of being able to enjoy the story instead of feeling like you have to rush or skip the story just to play with your friends in the content you want. for many this is not our first MMORPG, some new player want to get to raid with their friends, and the story will always come second to that.

There's nothing to stop them from raiding together even if the friend is starting from scratch on MSQ. It doesn't take that long to get through 2.0 and unlock Coils and/or CT.

If friends are trying to rush a new player through the leveling content, they don't sound like very good friends. NG+ and level sync exist so they can still play together.

[Iscah]

I think having the ability to willingly spoil your self at your own choice is still better than the game forcing a spoiler on you because you did a leveling roulette.

The thing is, it's not as simple as "just let people into the higher areas" because then things have to be structured differently. You can't gate off the final zone as something special reached by an unusual mechanism or story event; it has to be a straightforward door that anyone can pass through at will.