The Leveling Problem explained.

[Jojoya]

Because the game never once through the entire playthrough of the MSQ requires you to properly play your job, There never is a dps check or anything where you actually need to think for a bit or practice(excluding certain sequences where you are forced to play different character, so you don't really know what you are doing, and even then you can lower the difficulty in case you fail.)
You can beat all teh trials even if you instantly die because the other teammates just kill it for you.

What MMORPGs do in leveling content? Challenge requiring knowledge of how to play a job tends to only exist in the end game side content.

There's the other issue of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". It doesn't matter what tutorials a game has. If someone doesn't want to learn, they won't. Those interested in learning how to play better will. Some players might even learn and still play incorrectly just because they can.

It's an old argument that goes nowhere because it's useless in an online game. Don't like how well the random players you get matched with play the game? Create a circle of friends that you trust and play with them instead.

Having just gone through EW myself, I can attest, this isn't 100% true. With intention to only ever take MSQ (and MSQ duties) exp on my main job, there were a couple gaps that required a few FATEs be cleared to bridge the levels.

Part of it depends on how you play the game. If you're playing several hours a day each day, you're going to miss out on most of the rested XP bonus that bridges those gaps. If you're playing 6-8 hours total a week, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't own the next expansion and reach level cap for the expansion you do have, that's also going to contribute. Even if the amount of XP earned from patch content is small, it does add up and you lose it if you're doing the patch content while level capped.

I can guarantee that making such a tutorial mandatory for end-game gameplay after each expansion releases would tick off quite a number of high-end players. It would, however, remove the need for the so-called Mentoring System, so that might be a plus.

The Mentor system isn't about teaching others how to play their jobs (though that can be part of it if a Mentor wants to share what they know). The Mentor system is to help new players with general game basics. Where is such and such located, how do I unlock this content, what do I do to get this item, this queue is too long can someone help me get this done for MSQ, etc.

What SE needs to do to fix the Mentor system is remove the rewards.

[Hasrat]

Part of it depends on how you play the game. If you're playing several hours a day each day, you're going to miss out on most of the rested XP bonus that bridges those gaps. If you're playing 6-8 hours total a week, it shouldn't be a problem.

Rested only applies to combat exp. There's truly very little actual combat through MSQ. The occasional "kill a few of these enemies" or "stand here and kill what spawns," and duties that are spread out. The vast majority of MSQ leveling exp is purely quest exp, which rested will not apply to and won't be used up for. At no point did I ever manage to catch up to rested bonus through EW.

What does help bridge those MSQ gaps is things like exploration bonus exp (I swapped to a different job to explore new maps) and sightseeing exp (again, swapped jobs for those bonuses). Sightseeing is definitely good to have unlocked and up to date just for those little boosts.

Point is, if you take a job starting at 80 at the first EW quest, taking only what exp you will get from MSQ quests, role quests, and one trip through each duty along the way, you'll find 2-3 points where MSQ ticks up a level before you've dinged, and will have to supplement with the activity of your choice. I didn't feel like running extra duties/roulettes mid-story, so I stuck with FATEs. And, to be clear, these are still small gaps, bridged with only a few FATEs at most.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I don't want to leave the forums and sit through videos. Please summarize.

They suggest people should have a full rotation by 50 and because of us having so many levels now, we're getting abilities at a rate that makes it hard for new players to learn their jobs.

As someone who has leveled up every job, the fact Dragoon doesn't get their first AoE until 40 is a crime. I was straight up mad leveling up Dragoon. Why are people doing wall to wall pulls in these lowbie dungeons and don't nobody got an AoE?!

[Supersnow845]

Having your entire rotation at 50 does run into the MNK problem though where the job gets boring to level because beyond level 60 you are basically just getting small potency changes and buffs you stuff into the burst window anyway

Like BLM’s levelling experience is a mess but at least the class both feels somewhat like a class at level 50 but also feels like a totally different (and actually good class) at level 90

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Having your entire rotation at 50 does run into the MNK problem though where the job gets boring to level because beyond level 60 you are basically just getting small potency changes and buffs you stuff into the burst window anyway

Like BLM’s levelling experience is a mess but at least the class both feels somewhat like a class at level 50 but also feels like a totally different (and actually good class) at level 90

It's funny you feel that way because MNK is one of my favorite classes while BLM was the one and only job I could not stand to play. While all other jobs I would do all my roulettes as that job, I ended up hating BLM so much that I leveled it through PVP and just switched to a different job once I was in. And whenever I complained about how bad it was people assured me "it's good at endgame" and I've seen people recommend buying a skip rather than trying to level a BLM. So what you're stating as a virtue, a lot of the playerbase feels makes the job unplayable at lower levels. You are the first person I've ever met who said they like low level BLM. It feels so awful and unfinished I was looking up guides assuming I was missing something. I'd argue no job in the game suffers from the skill stretch more than BLM, not even single-target Dragoon.

[Sensui]

I just want new jobs to start at level 1. Kinda feels cheap letting them skip to level 50, 60, etc..upon unlock. I enjoy leveling and feel kinda cheated when it's already mostly done.

[Jojoya]

Rested only applies to combat exp. There's truly very little actual combat through MSQ. The occasional "kill a few of these enemies" or "stand here and kill what spawns," and duties that are spread out. The vast majority of MSQ leveling exp is purely quest exp, which rested will not apply to and won't be used up for. At no point did I ever manage to catch up to rested bonus through EW.

What does help bridge those MSQ gaps is things like exploration bonus exp (I swapped to a different job to explore new maps) and sightseeing exp (again, swapped jobs for those bonuses). Sightseeing is definitely good to have unlocked and up to date just for those little boosts.

Point is, if you take a job starting at 80 at the first EW quest, taking only what exp you will get from MSQ quests, role quests, and one trip through each duty along the way, you'll find 2-3 points where MSQ ticks up a level before you've dinged, and will have to supplement with the activity of your choice. I didn't feel like running extra duties/roulettes mid-story, so I stuck with FATEs. And, to be clear, these are still small gaps, bridged with only a few FATEs at most.

You're forgetting the dungeons that are part of MSQ. The bonus does apply to the dungeon bosses and it does add up. I've seen the difference each expansion release as I first level this character almost without a break in MSQ followed by my alts that do it at a slower pace.

Either way, as you say the gap is fairly small and a few FATEs (or a roulette if that's the player's preference) to fill the gap isn't a big deal.

They suggest people should have a full rotation by 50 and because of us having so many levels now, we're getting abilities at a rate that makes it hard for new players to learn their jobs.

As someone who has leveled up every job, the fact Dragoon doesn't get their first AoE until 40 is a crime. I was straight up mad leveling up Dragoon. Why are people doing wall to wall pulls in these lowbie dungeons and don't nobody got an AoE?!

The tank will always have their first AoE by the time they do Sastasha.

Archer has Quick Nock at 18, Thaumaturge has Blizzard II at 12, Machinist has Spread Shot at 18, Red Mage has Scatter at 15, Dancer has Windmill and Standard Finish at 15.

Most of the remaining DPS get their first AoE at 25 or 26, which means they're only missing an AoE for the first 3 MSQ dungeons plus Halatali since Toto-Rak level syncs to 27. Rogue, Lancer and the healers are the ones that don't have an AoE by the time they reach 30.

If every job got every action type at the same level, it would just add more to the cries of too much homogenization. It might feel awkward but it does help add to a unique job identity.

As for getting the complete kit by 50, no thanks. There's no point in continuing to have levels in a RPG if your character won't be learning anything new and potency increases through traits aren't learning something new. They're just a different form of power creep that already gets out of hand with end game gear upgrades.

I understand that you feel differently but this is going to be one of those areas where players are going to end up split on which is a more satisfying experience.

[Mostly_Raxus]

the problem is that they need to detach access to zones and non msq questlines from MSQ and make them level based instead.

for instance raids and such, if your level 90 but still in ARR then you should still be able to travel to zones and pick up quests to unlock grp content.

the game forces you to rush a 2 month long quest line to play with friends, let us do the quest at our own pace, but allow us to unlock things separately even if its spoilers, we are big boys and girls, we can make that choice ourselves.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

The tank will always have their first AoE by the time they do Sastasha.

Archer has Quick Nock at 18, Thaumaturge has Blizzard II at 12, Machinist has Spread Shot at 18, Red Mage has Scatter at 15, Dancer has Windmill and Standard Finish at 15.

Most of the remaining DPS get their first AoE at 25 or 26, which means they're only missing an AoE for the first 3 MSQ dungeons plus Halatali since Toto-Rak level syncs to 27. Rogue, Lancer and the healers are the ones that don't have an AoE by the time they reach 30.

If every job got every action type at the same level, it would just add more to the cries of too much homogenization. It might feel awkward but it does help add to a unique job identity.

As for getting the complete kit by 50, no thanks. There's no point in continuing to have levels in a RPG if your character won't be learning anything new and potency increases through traits aren't learning something new. They're just a different form of power creep that already gets out of hand with end game gear upgrades.

I understand that you feel differently but this is going to be one of those areas where players are going to end up split on which is a more satisfying experience.

It was two dragoons and a white mage. We kept wiping because in the lower zones you can pull everything for five miles and no one had an AoE but the tank, which I don't think he realized based on how he was pulling. There is no excuse for any job to not have an AoE in their 30s. Doubly so if that job is supposed to be dps. The only reason it's stretched out in a weird, stupid way is because we have 90 levels now and they want you to keep getting goodies as you level. But it seems to have been figured out by different people, which is why some jobs have rotations by 50 while other jobs have nothing. That's not good, that's not fun, that's not satisfying. How many people are doing their roulettes because they enjoy going through level 30 dungeons with their two abilities and not because they need tomestones?

[Jojoya]

It was two dragoons and a white mage. We kept wiping because in the lower zones you can pull everything for five miles and no one had an AoE but the tank, which I don't think he realized based on how he was pulling. There is no excuse for any job to not have an AoE in their 30s. Doubly so if that job is supposed to be dps. The only reason it's stretched out in a weird, stupid way is because we have 90 levels now and they want you to keep getting goodies as you level. But it seems to have been figured out by different people, which is why some jobs have rotations by 50 while other jobs have nothing. That's not good, that's not fun, that's not satisfying. How many people are doing their roulettes because they enjoy going through level 30 dungeons with their two abilities and not because they need tomestones?

Personally I'm more on your side about every class/job having one AoE by level 30. I don't think it's necessary for everyone to have one at 15 though. I did want to point out how everyone getting the same abilities at the same level just add to the dissatisfaction with jobs being homogenized and feeling mostly the same.

The first 3 dungeons do not need the AoEs even if the tank is chain pulling. If the wipe was in Sastasha, Tam Tara or Copperbell, it sounds more like the tank didn't communicate with the rest of the party about what they intended to do or make certain they're aware that certain trash will reset if you run past without attacking/healing.

But by the time players reach Haukke Manor, those AoEs have become important. If a class doesn't already have an AoE by then, I'd be onboard with SE making an AoE the skill rewarded with their level 30 class quest.

I do challenge your statement that there are jobs with nothing for a rotation at level 50. I can't think of any job where that is true other than the healers, which I'm fine with even as a healer main.

As for roulettes, if you're after tomestones there are better choices to make than the leveling or guildhest roulettes. Those the only ones that will drop you down to low levels with only 2 buttons to use. You'll be 50 or higher in the rest.